Looking for advice/critique

[Irons]

Hey guys...I know I only have a couple posts, but Iâ??????ve been lurking here for a few years, reading up, adjusting my routine, trying to find what works best for me. Been lifting for about 4-5 years. Started off doing a lot wrong, and have gradually gotten my shit together. I just wanted to post my routine, which has worked pretty well for me, and see what advice you guys have specifically for what I've been doing. I've read the stickies, but I'm curious to see what you would have me personally tweak/change relative to my routine.

I'm 22, 5â??????10â??????â?????? on a good day, about 175lbs. I lift 5 days a week during my lunch break at work, so my sessions are an hour or so. My goals are, I feel stupid even saying it because itâ??????s pretty much what everyone is looking for, but to put on mass and cut the fat. Iâ??????m sitting at about 10% body fat right now, but have a slower metabolism and have to fight to keep the weight off. I graduated high school at 125-130 lbs after losing a lot of weight though, so Iâ??????ve come a long way in terms of muscle mass - but obviously always looking to improve.

My diet is very good. Breakfast is usually an egg white omelet and a yogurt with some granola. Mid morning I'll have a granola bar, and pre-workout I'll have a shake (2 scoops ON Gold in water). Lunch is generally some frozen vegetables and either a chicken breast, couple cans of tuna, or lean turkey. A piece of fruit and a yogurt hold me over mid afternoon, and then dinner is about the same as lunch, meat of some sort and vegetables. Usually end up grabbing something healthy about an hour or so before bed as well.

For supplements, Iâ??????m taking a multi, fish oil, C, E, BCAAs and sometimes Meltdown.

My lifting routine is below. I figure the muscle grouping is where you guys will have the most advice to offer. What I have is what has worked best for me, and it seems upper body focused, but I can never manage legs (or any muscle groups for that matter) more than once a week because Iâ??????m always sore for 4 days or so after I work them.

Monday â?????? Chest:

Flat bench - 4 sets, 4-10 reps
Incline bench â?????? 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Cable flys â?????? 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Sometimes decline â?????? 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Tuesday â?????? Legs:

Squats, narrow stance â?????? 4 sets, 8-10 reps
Squats, wide stance â?????? 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Calf raises â?????? 4 sets, 80-100 reps (heavy & low reps has never worked for me..)
Sometimes extensions if Iâ??????m not totally gassed. 3 sets, 10-12 reps

Wednesday â?????? Shoulders/triceps:

Military press, 4 sets, 6-8 reps
Posterior Delt reverse cable flys, 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Tricep overhead extensions, 3 sets, 6-10 reps
Triceps pulldown, 4 sets, 8-12 reps

Thursday â?????? Back/biceps:

Weighted pullups, 4 sets, 8-12 reps
Seated rows, 3 sets, 10-12 reps
Shrugs, 4 sets, 15-20 reps
Barbell curls, 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Friday â?????? Core:

Situps, crunches, oblique work, back extensions. About 4 sets of each.


In addition to all of this, I do situps and calf presses 4/5 days of the week. My calves are very undersized, and the only way Iâ??????ve seen any results with them is to do lighter weight, higher rep work almost every day of the week. I also do about a half hour or so of cardio work, whether itâ??????s running, boxing, rowing, etc., 2-3 nights a week.

Iâ??????m thinking you guys might suggest push/pull splits or something, because I know my mucle isolation/grouping probably isnâ??????t ideal. Curious to hear your input. Iâ??????ve attached a photo to give you a gauge for where Iâ??????m at right now. My legs are relatively in proportion although slightly undersized because I did leg press for years and only within the past year switched to squats (stupid, I know...), and my calves, like I said, are a bit small.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


Jason

 

[Built]

You look awesome! I'll say it though, and you already know it: you look bigger than 175, and that means we need to pack some meat on your legs - the squats you're doing will do much to improve things.

Now, your split only allows one leg day a week. Maybe look at doing more leg work than upper for a while? Also, you aren't doing any deadlifts at all. This means you are surely lagging in the hamstring/glute/posterior chain department.

Maybe do something like:

Posterior chain, horizontal pulling, heavy hamstring work (deads, rows, glute ham raises, split squats, 5-8 rep sets)
chest and bis, standing calves
Heavy quad work, abs (5-8 rep sets)
lats and delts, seated calves
higher-rep quads and hams (8-12 rep sets), tris

Could that work for your lunch hours?



Can you post up the macros you run, not just the food?

 

[Valias]

How about opening back day with 3-4 sets of romanian dead lifts (after warm ups ofc)? With the weight you'd be hauling with those, you'd probably even be able to drop the shrugs from it - the deadlifts will really work those traps too - but if it's not enough for you ofc keep doing the shrugs.

The deadlifts should add more intensity to back day, and also work more on that posterior chain .

 

[Irons]

Thanks for the input guys. I've done deadlifts on and off over the years, but recently stopped because after squats, I am DEAD - nothing left in the tank, can't imagine doing deadlifts. I'd like to put them on a separate day, but my legs are always sore for at least 4 days afterward. I tried having Friday be leg day II because I know they need the most work, but I just can't pull it off...

And Built - no clue on the macros. I've never tracked it that closely.

 

[Ben dur]

i once read that a great way to hit calves is
4 sets

1 SUPER heavy (4-6 reps)
1 SUPER high rep (60-80 reps) obviously very low weight
1 SUPER heavy (4-6 reps)
1 SUPER high rep (60-80 reps)

apparently your calves are not made up of mainly "fast twitch" or "slow twitch"muscle fibers
rather a combination
and the best way to work them, is to stimulate them with high reps, and with power reps

========================================================================


actually the article says something slightly different

Bodybuilding Training Routines - Bodybuilding Training Routines for Calves

 

[Built]

Paraphoe, FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal is your friend. Enter up a few days' worth of your eats and run an average.

Please believe me when I tell you that you'll get much better leg development if you spread it out over two or three of your workouts than if you do one "rape your legs" workout a week. Bodypart splits are extremely limiting in this regard. As a natural lifter, you simply won't get enough of an anabolic response from this protocol - and I know a lot of people train this way, but it's sub-optimal and you'll get far better development when you let it go.

 

[Irons]

Wow, that IS a really helpful site. Thanks for the link. It would appear I don't eat nearly enough calories and could use more protein. I've always thought I had more than enough of both of those.

Here's a 3 day average:

As for legs more than once a week - is there anything you can suggest to try to minimize the soreness, or will the splits you suggested help with that, as they're more posterior/quad splits? I gotta be honest after my "rape your legs" work out (that cracked me up), it's painful to walk after periods of sitting, and sitting down is a chore.


Ben,

Thanks for the link man. I'll give that a shot. Calves have always been a struggle for me.

 

[Ben dur]

macros look good for a cut...

not so much for adding mass though

probably add in 500 calories and see if you start gaining




just my take

 

[Built]

Isn't it an eye-opener when you actually SEE how what you eat translates into macronutrients and calories? I'm glad you found that so helpful - and proud of you for doing the work to enter in a few days' food. I know it's a pain in the ass at first, but it quickly turns into a five minute daily ritual to plan out your diet.

Your protein is more than sufficient for your lean mass. You MAY decide to eat more if you wish, but it's not necessary.

I'd up fats and carbs a bit though, for bulking. Fats through the day, carbs postworkout in particular. Your monos are higher than your saturates, and your saturates are higher than your polys, which is as it should be. That being said, your polys can stand to increase a bit - if you're not getting in 10g or so of fish oil daily, I'd add that in.

 

[Irons]

I'm taking 4 fish oil caps daily...you're suggesting 10 caps?

I'm going to try to hit up the bodybuilding.com exercise section and attempt to re-build a new routine based on the advice you guys are giving me, so please keep it coming. I'll probably kick it off after Thanksgiving week, which I'm taking off for some needed R&R.

 

[Built]

I take 10g, yes.

Try this for a workout:
Got Built? » Baby Got Back

 

[Ben dur]

10g may not be 10 caps!

for me it is 12 caps

 

[scandalous1]

Try this for a workout:
Got Built? � Baby Got Back

QFE!

I have been using this program for ~ 5 weeks and it is going very well.

Day 1 - upper horizontal push/pull
Day 2 - legs, quad dominant, ham secondary - bi's
Day 3 - rest
Day 4 - upper vertical push/pull
Day 5 - legs, hips/hams dominant, quads secondary - tri's

I do my deadlifts on Day 5 however.

 

[Irons]

Scandalous,

Would you mind posting a quick breakdown of the exercises you do each day? I'm afraid some muscle groups are gonna get neglected/the routine is going to take me way too long. I would appreciate it. Thanks man.

 

[Built]

What do you worry might get neglected, Paraphoe? Maybe I can assuage some of your fears.

 

[scandalous1]

Scandalous,

Would you mind posting a quick breakdown of the exercises you do each day? I'm afraid some muscle groups are gonna get neglected/the routine is going to take me way too long. I would appreciate it. Thanks man.

I have only been in the gym for 6 weeks so I try to stick to compound exercises and low volume/high intensity for now. I would follow up with Built as she can definitely help you more with this as it's her creation!

It looks like this:

Day 1 - uppper horizontal push/pull + calves

BB or DB bench press
BB or DB incline press
BB or DB decline press (optional depending on volume/intensity of 1st 2)

BB bent over rows and/or DB rows
low pulley rows
rear delt laterals or reverse pec deck

seated calf raises

Day 2 legs - quad dominant - hams accessory -bi's

BB back Squats
Leg press
leg curls - light weight - high rep

BB curls
DB curls
cable curls

Day 3 I take off

Day 4 upper vertical push/pull + calves

BB military press or DB press
DB lateral raises

Chins/pull-ups
lat pulldowns

standing calf raises

Day 5 legs - hams, hips, quads dominant - quads secondary + tri's

BB deadlift
RDL/SLDL
leg extensions

dips
tricep pushdowns
nosebreakers

 

[Irons]

What do you worry might get neglected, Paraphoe? Maybe I can assuage some of your fears.

Well, I don't mean neglected per se...but definitely scaled back/not worked as much. You saw I posted my routine above, so you know I hit each group with multiple exercises. I feel like I won't have enough time to get through enough exercises per group.

For example, I'm thinking for horizontal push/pull I'd need to do chest (I normally do 3-4 separate exercises), rows, curls, etc. So I'd have to cut down on chest to get the rest in. For Vertical push/pull, I'd be trying to cram pull-ups, lat pull-downs, tricep work (normally do two exercises) and shoulder work (normally two exercises) into an hour. I feel like I'd have to cut out a ton of what I've always used.




Scandalous,

Thanks for the breakdown, appreciate it.

 

[Built]

Yeah, well, no arm work on either of the push-pull days. Tris get hit plenty with any pushing movements, bis with any pulls. I toss a little optional arm work into the two predominately leg days so you can get in a little extra hit if you want one.

 

[scandalous1]

Yeah, well, no arm work on either of the push-pull days. Tris get hit plenty with any pushing movements, bis with any pulls. I toss a little optional arm work into the two predominately leg days so you can get in a little extra hit if you want one.

It's funny that when I was on my leg day and went to do bi's I felt like my arms were so weak and I didn't understand why however, they were improving. I finally figured out this past week that the push/pull days were working my bi's really well enough. I find the same goes for my tri's. I still do some bi & tri work on those days but I have to use less weight and concentrate on really good form and only do one or two exercises.

I also read Gaz' sticky on the butterfly effect and put 2 & 2 together and realized with a good push/pull routine of compound exercises that isolation work for arms isn't all that necessary. I can validate this personally as like I said I haven't been doing much isolation work for them and they are definitely improving.

 

[Irons]

Sounds good...I'll piece this all together and let you all know how it goes. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Irons]

Alright guys, crafted this one - what do you think?



Day 1: Lower - Quad dominant, Biceps

• Narrow stance squats
• Leg extensions
• Deadlifts
• Bicep curls

Day 2: Upper - Horizontal Push/Pull

• Bench Press
• Incline Bench Press
• Rows/Motorcycle Rows
• One Arm Dumbbell Rows

Day 3: Core - Cardio, Abs, obliques


Day 4: Lower Ham Dominant, Triceps

• Wide stance squats
• Romanian Deadlifts
• Leg curls
• Tricep Extensions

Day 5: Upper - Vertical Push/Pull

• Military Press
• Shrugs
• Pullups

In addition, I will work in calves on most days, and supplement at night with cardio and abs probably on 2/5 nights.

Additions? Subtractions?

 

[Built]

How about this?

Horizontal push pull, calves, abs

• Bench Press 5x5
• Incline Dumbbell Press 3x8
• T-bars 5x5
• /Motorcycle Rows or One Arm Dumbbell Rows 3x8

Weighted abs 3x5-8
Seated calves, 3 second pause at the bottom of each rep. 3x20

Quad dominant, ham accessory, Biceps

• Back squats 5x5
• Narrow stance front squats 3x8
• Single-leg dumbbell RDLs 3x8 each side
• Sissy squats supersetted with the top half only of leg extensions, 3 supersets of 8 reps each

Any type of bicep work you like; optional

(Day 3 - rest)

Vertical Push/Pull, calves, abs

• Barbell push press 5x5
• Weighted chins 5x5
• Arnold press 3x8
• Single-arm lat pulldowns 3x8

Weighted abs 3x5-8
Single-leg standing calves, 3 second pause at the bottom of each rep. 3x10


Ham Dominant, Quad accessory, Triceps

• RDLs 5x5
• Good mornings or GHRs 3x8
• Barbell Split squats or walking lunges 3x8 each side
• SHELC, one leg at at time if two becomes too easy

If chest is lagging at all on you, do something like dips or close-grip bench today to hit tris and pecs.

(Day 6 - rest)
(Day 7 - rest)

 

[Irons]

Motorcycle rows I found on this list, excercise #1. Very effective lat isolation:

T-Nation.com | 7 Exercises From Thib's Toolbox


Are there any major holes in mine that you re-worked/was it horribly lacking, or did you just do some tweaking? A lot of the stuff you added I can't do for various reasons (equipment, previous injuries/weaknesses), etc.

 

[Built]

D'oh! <smacks forehead> I remember seeing those now! Do those as the 3x8 instead of the one-arm dumbbell rows. You need a heavy mass-mover for the first horizontal pull though. How about T-bars or bent over rows?

Tell me what stuff you can't do in the stuff I suggested and why - I'll give you substitutes.

You had changed the workout order (no biggie) and had squats for your heavy hamstring work. You also planned to do more ab and calf work - you can still do more of it if you like, but it's not necessary. You grow outside the gym.

 

[Irons]

D'oh! <smacks forehead> I remember seeing those now! Do those as the 3x8 instead of the one-arm dumbbell rows. You need a heavy mass-mover for the first horizontal pull though. How about T-bars or bent over rows?

Tell me what stuff you can't do in the stuff I suggested and why - I'll give you substitutes.

You had changed the workout order (no biggie) and had squats for your heavy hamstring work. You also planned to do more ab and calf work - you can still do more of it if you like, but it's not necessary. You grow outside the gym.

I was under the impression that RDLs were mainly hamstring heavy, and with the wide stance on the squats, I get mostly inner thigh and hamstring soreness. I changed the order because I really don't want to do legs on a Friday - that's the day with the highest likelihood of me missing a workout. Only happened once in the past 5 months, but still.

WHat's wrong with cable rows as a heavy mass mover? Bent over rows I don't think would be possible after leg day, not with that stance and how sore I always am. SO maybe I'll keep your order and include them on day one. What are "T-Bars"?

As for stuff I can't do - for chest incline I need to stick with a barbell - I have a wrist issue and to get a good enough workout I need dumbbells heavy enough that I could re-injure myself.

Sissy squats I think would put too huge a strain on my knees, and with a bad family and personal history, I don't think I wanna go down that road.

GHRs I do not have the equipment for, and I have no idea what SHELCs are.

 

[Built]

I was under the impression that RDLs were mainly hamstring heavy, and with the wide stance on the squats, I get mostly inner thigh and hamstring soreness. I changed the order because I really don't want to do legs on a Friday - that's the day with the highest likelihood of me missing a workout. Only happened once in the past 5 months, but still.

Keep the workout order, just start with day 4. That way, you only ever risk skipping vertical push pull day.

WHat's wrong with cable rows as a heavy mass mover?

Nothing. You just can't throw around the real heavy stuff.

Try t-bars. You'll like 'em.

YouTube Video

Bent over rows I don't think would be possible after leg day, not with that stance and how sore I always am. SO maybe I'll keep your order and include them on day one. What are "T-Bars"?

As for stuff I can't do - for chest incline I need to stick with a barbell - I have a wrist issue and to get a good enough workout I need dumbbells heavy enough that I could re-injure myself.

That's why I think you should do them. You need to do some higher-rep stuff to strengthen joints and stabiliaers. That's also why I suggest doing the heavy barbell work first - but if you simply cannot use dumbbells, use the barbell.

Sissy squats I think would put too huge a strain on my knees, and with a bad family and personal history, I don't think I wanna go down that road.

I've actually never heard of anyone hurting their knees doing sissies, although everyone THINKS they're going to hurt knees. Leg extensions are far more dangerous to the knee. If you must do them, only do the top half or top third of the movement, don't bounce at the beginning or at the end of the movement, and don't go heavy. This is a tension movement, good for a pump. Don't try to build Cutler's legs with 'em.

GHRs I do not have the equipment for, and I have no idea what SHELCs are.

Read this to see how to do them without a GHR bench.
SHELC:

YouTube Video

Have fun!

 

[Irons]

You have an answer for everything, I love it. Haha...thanks again for all the help. I'm taking next week off, and will kick this off come Monday, December 1st.

 

[Built]

You're welcome lol - lemme know how you like my GHRs.

 

[ArnoldsProtege]

Split looks good, but you could really benefit from a full facial reconstruction. It looks abit...laughable.... OOOHHHOOOO I crack myself up.

Uhhh...yeah that's about it...I have nothing of any value to contribute... perhaps I should do my homework, instead of posting mindless, irrelevant, drivel to avoid it.

btw, seeing that pic and knowing that YOU are going through serious steps and dedication to get in better shape makes me feel I should be much more diligent in my fitness quest. Your body actually looks like my goal, so congratulations on already being where I aspire to be lol. You are jacked, my friend... Perhaps compensating for a...JOKE of a face?

 

[Irons]

Hahaha...thanks dude, I really appreciate that. Like my father always told me, if something is worth doing, it's worth doing right. The way I look at it is you cannot be complacent with where you are, at any point. Become complacent where you are, and you can prepare yourself for a lifetime of mediocrity. No one wants that. Not to mention that I'm in training with the fire department, so I REALLY want to make sure I'm giving my all in the weight room, especially in the legs department.