Nearly 50% of all Men...

[John H.]

Sorry about that first statement, I though you said that. It was Crazy, not you.

Second, you are once again taking one rare occurrence and making your point with it. If you look at the average income of pastors, including both the few huge churches and also the many small ones, it is not much at all. The majority of these people are not in it for the money. There are a few bad seeds in every occupation or organization that make them look bad, but you can't count off the whole group because of them.

Hi Thatguy,

I wish it was a "rare occurence" - perhaps considering the whole what we know of is small but then like I said what we know of... The church I was talking about is a relatively small church... Sure there are bad seeds... Everywhere...

I am glad I own my own farm. And while a lot goes on everyday, it IS PEACEFUL and TRANQUIL and a very happy place to live and raise children and KNOW God. I am just tired - damn tired - of all the bs in this world...

Take Care, John H.

 

[thatguy]

Hi Thatguy,

I was being scarcastic here... But you never know... I know we are led to believe Catholic priests have no sex and that all other Christian pastors ONLY have Sex with their wives - no one else's children, etc. Well now if you think I will ever believe that is true.... If HALF of what we hear on the news is true think about how much has not been reported YET!!!

I think I need a "crystal cathedral" to preach from because God wants that, or a toupee, or a twenty-piece suit, or a gold "chevy".... Or how about "the blood, the blood, the blood..." ad infinitum.... But remember to write for "my offer" number "b24" for a one-time $10.00 - yea right, once you get my first ten you'll never stop asking for more...

Look at how many times people are asked for money during each television religious program, or in every church across the nation....


Take Care, John H.

To answer your first paragraph, of course there are some that don't follow the rules. Pastors and ministers or just plain old Christians are not perfect. I would never try to tell you differently.

As for asking for money, some of that is bogus and frankly an embarrassement. But giving money to a church is how the church runs. It doesn't produce income in and of itself, that would be called a business, like Home Depot or Target. Churches give to their congregation and their community via services, classes, child care, materials, helping the poor, etc., and there's gotta be some way to pay for that.

 

[thatguy]

Hi Thatguy,

I wish it was a "rare occurence" - perhaps considering the whole what we know of is small but then like I said what we know of... The church I was talking about is a relatively small church... Sure there are bad seeds... Everywhere...

I am glad I own my own farm. And while a lot goes on everyday, it IS PEACEFUL and TRANQUIL and a very happy place to live and raise children and KNOW God. I am just tired - damn tired - of all the bs in this world...

Take Care, John H.

I'm glad you have a farm, too, John. And I too am sick of all the BS in the world.

BTW, you have children?

 

[Souped_up]

Hi Souped,

I think it would be very beneficial if it were possible to eliminate ALL sex, religion, politics, etc. Think how great it would be if we were somehow able to "take away" your Heterosexuality - you would never have to worry about females fighting over you, you would not have to go through that "marriage" thing, or having and raising "children".... Then we could all live "happily ever after"...

Take Care, John H.

Hi John.

You are sidestepping the issue. How about you just stick with having sexual relations with women only and then you won't have to worry. Sexuality CAN be changed. The only ones that don't want to change are the ones that won't admit that being gay is wrong or deep down are convincing themselves they can't change. If gay people struggling to become bisexual could realise they could become bisexual so they could have relationships with women properly they would HONESTLY try it. As you like to say LIFE AND LIVING - I have learned it myself. I see it around me and my own life experiences sexuality is not set in stone it CAN change if you WANT IT BAD ENOUGH. Just like PURE MUSCLE.

Take Care, Souped_up

 

[crazy_enough]

Hi John.

You are sidestepping the issue. How about you just stick with having sexual relations with women only and then you won't have to worry. Sexuality CAN be changed. The only ones that don't want to change are the ones that won't admit that being gay is wrong or deep down are convincing themselves they can't change. If gay people struggling to become bisexual could realise they could become bisexual so they could have relationships with women properly they would HONESTLY try it. As you like to say LIFE AND LIVING - I have learned it myself. I see it around me and my own life experiences sexuality is not set in stone it CAN change if you WANT IT BAD ENOUGH. Just like PURE MUSCLE.

Take Care, Souped_up

Souped,

That was purely idiotic!! Sexual orientation is (most often) biological, genetic....Sure, some women (using women for examples, as it can happen to men as well) endure abuse from the opposite sex (in whatever form)and find refuge in same sex relationships...but for the majority of us, we didnt wake up one day saying "well, I think today is the day Ill be gay"!! I never heard of gay people "struggling to be bisexual"...lol
I have been in relationships with men. Not coz I was forced to, but because I thought that doing what everyone else was doing was better for me! Turns out I was unhappy and not willing to spend the rest of my life that way!
I beleive that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you have claimed to being open and non judgemental, yet now u go on saying that being gay is "wrong"...uh???? Have you tried homosexual sex?? Coz if its that simple to go from gay to straight or bi, the other way around should be the same!
I for one am not convincing myself that I cant change...I dont want to change, Im quite happy with my "condition".

 

[John H.]

Surely you are kidding - (yourself perhaps)

Hi John.

You are sidestepping the issue. How about you just stick with having sexual relations with women only and then you won't have to worry. Sexuality CAN be changed. The only ones that don't want to change are the ones that won't admit that being gay is wrong or deep down are convincing themselves they can't change. If gay people struggling to become bisexual could realise they could become bisexual so they could have relationships with women properly they would HONESTLY try it. As you like to say LIFE AND LIVING - I have learned it myself. I see it around me and my own life experiences sexuality is not set in stone it CAN change if you WANT IT BAD ENOUGH. Just like PURE MUSCLE.

Take Care, Souped_up

Hi Souped,

Me? Sidestepping? Not on your life. I head things right-on! Always. That is the best way to get anything accomplished. There's nothing worse then a person trying to avoid things they do not want to deal with - nothing is ever solved or accomplished. I visit the hardest things first - it really is the very best way to handle things in life.

I think you are just arguing to argue. If you really believe what you say then may I suggest YOU change to being BiSexual or Homosexual (me assuming that you are now Heterosexual) and let me know how it is for you. Tell me how you do that too - I'd like to hear your methods - so would a lot of others, NOT that they are not happy the way God INTENDED they be... Give it an honest try if you think a person's sexuality is a "chosen" thing. I can't believe you really think this way - I just think you are saying this to get people upset for some reason - you sound just like ChaosJester on that other Board - he did the same thing - thus his name.

But,

Take Care, John H.

 

[bio-chem]

John im feeling left out. you replied to everyone but me. so your avidly against religion. i can understand that. a lot of men have done some bad things in the name of god. so lets think this out. you accept the fact that there is a god. whats our relationship with him? i propose we use the term father. so, we have a father in heaven. lets further assume that he has given us a purpose on this earth. fair enough? so we have a father in heaven and he has a plan for us. follow me so far? he probably wants us to understand the plan he has for us (our purpose for being here). right? so what does he do? he teaches it to some of his children (prophets) who then teach it to the rest of us. what you have is religion. plain and simple. now i will agree and say there are false prophets. men out there who say "follow me" and "ive had a vision" and unfortunatly multiple religions are formed because man has corrupted the teachings of god. however this does not mean the original truth that there is a god and he has a plan for us is wrong. it just means we have to look harder to find the truth. the truth is man must change to meet truths about god. not god change to meet man made truths. the true Church of Jesus Christ is out there john try looking for it instead of dismissing them all because you percieve so many wrongs in religion. and when you find the truth (remember your ALWAYS are looking for the truth right john?) remember the church will be perfect but the people will still be people and not perfect, just trying to be.

 

[Souped_up]

Souped,

That was purely idiotic!! Sexual orientation is (most often) biological, genetic....Sure, some women (using women for examples, as it can happen to men as well) endure abuse from the opposite sex (in whatever form)and find refuge in same sex relationships...but for the majority of us, we didnt wake up one day saying "well, I think today is the day Ill be gay"!! I never heard of gay people "struggling to be bisexual"...lol
I have been in relationships with men. Not coz I was forced to, but because I thought that doing what everyone else was doing was better for me! Turns out I was unhappy and not willing to spend the rest of my life that way!
I beleive that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you have claimed to being open and non judgemental, yet now u go on saying that being gay is "wrong"...uh???? Have you tried homosexual sex?? Coz if its that simple to go from gay to straight or bi, the other way around should be the same!
I for one am not convincing myself that I cant change...I dont want to change, Im quite happy with my "condition".

Hi crazy,

You are in fact saying idiotic statements - let me point you out why. I never said you wake up one day and know your sexuality in fact that is exactly the opposite of what I have said. ALSO that PROVES MY POINT. Sexuality is a GREY area early in childhood. WE develop it as a result of society and biological urges. If society taught us to be gay I bet at least half would be gay. The only reason why I say 90 percent wouldn't be gay if society taught us that we were supposed to be gay is that there are certain biological urges that gear us to being straight so the inverse wouldn't be exactly the same.

Take Care, Souped_up

 

[Souped_up]

Hi Souped,

Me? Sidestepping? Not on your life. I head things right-on! Always. That is the best way to get anything accomplished. There's nothing worse then a person trying to avoid things they do not want to deal with - nothing is ever solved or accomplished. I visit the hardest things first - it really is the very best way to handle things in life.

I think you are just arguing to argue. If you really believe what you say then may I suggest YOU change to being BiSexual or Homosexual (me assuming that you are now Heterosexual) and let me know how it is for you. Tell me how you do that too - I'd like to hear your methods - so would a lot of others, NOT that they are not happy the way God INTENDED they be... Give it an honest try if you think a person's sexuality is a "chosen" thing. I can't believe you really think this way - I just think you are saying this to get people upset for some reason - you sound just like ChaosJester on that other Board - he did the same thing - thus his name.

But,

Take Care, John H.

Hi John.

Most think im joking when I say I believe this because I have debated this stance before so this is not something im saying at the spur of the moment. Sexuality is not as rigid as many imply. There are many homosexuals that have changed their ways and became christains and got married. I believe a man for example could become bisexual if he has relations with a transexual. THey will consider it a female and gradually over time get relaxed with the notion of being with a guy. Another example is if a guy is watching porn and gets a hardon and his buddy wants to help him out, maybe the guy will "put" up with it just to get a "release". Im not saying homosexuality is ok or right I don't believe it is. Thats why I wouldn't want to try it.

I think my philosophical thinking is above yours because obviously all this pondering about sexuality has never allowed you to see this point of view as a POSSIBILITY.

Take Care, Souped_up

 

[fantasma62]

Hi John.

Most think im joking when I say I believe this because I have debated this stance before so this is not something im saying at the spur of the moment. Sexuality is not as rigid as many imply. There are many homosexuals that have changed their ways and became christains and got married. I believe a man for example could become bisexual if he has relations with a transexual. THey will consider it a female and gradually over time get relaxed with the notion of being with a guy. Another example is if a guy is watching porn and gets a hardon and his buddy wants to help him out, maybe the guy will "put" up with it just to get a "release". Im not saying homosexuality is ok or right I don't believe it is. Thats why I wouldn't want to try it.

I think my philosophical thinking is above yours because obviously all this pondering about sexuality has never allowed you to see this point of view as a POSSIBILITY.

Take Care, Souped_up

WTF? Wow man, nope, I am not putting up with it because first of all, Willy will not come out to play in front of a "Buddy" unless said "Buddy" is married to me and looks exactly like my wife. If I wasn't married, I'd still look for the same gender as my wife. Second of all if a so-called buddy comes to me to help me release, well, I rather keep quiet here, but let's just say that he no longer would be my buddy. I respect others and if he's a buddy of mine he'll know what he can or can't do to me.....Sorry, that's just the way I feel...
By the way, I am not gay bashing. I assure you that my gay friends know how I feel and these are men that I hug when I see them because they are long time friends (before walking out of the proverbial closet) but there is a line, they know it and I know it. Neither of us cross it. We are happy, end of story....

 

[crazy_enough]

Hi John.

Most think im joking when I say I believe this because I have debated this stance before so this is not something im saying at the spur of the moment. Sexuality is not as rigid as many imply. There are many homosexuals that have changed their ways and became christains and got married. I believe a man for example could become bisexual if he has relations with a transexual. THey will consider it a female and gradually over time get relaxed with the notion of being with a guy. Another example is if a guy is watching porn and gets a hardon and his buddy wants to help him out, maybe the guy will "put" up with it just to get a "release". Im not saying homosexuality is ok or right I don't believe it is. Thats why I wouldn't want to try it.

I think my philosophical thinking is above yours because obviously all this pondering about sexuality has never allowed you to see this point of view as a POSSIBILITY.

Take Care, Souped_up

Im looking for a nice way to put thi...I hate to offedn others but...THIS IS FUCKED UP!!! Even for me!

 

[fantasma62]

Im looking for a nice way to put thi...I hate to offedn others but...THIS IS FUCKED UP!!! Even for me!

 

[crazy_enough]

Hi crazy,

You are in fact saying idiotic statements - let me point you out why. I never said you wake up one day and know your sexuality in fact that is exactly the opposite of what I have said. ALSO that PROVES MY POINT. Sexuality is a GREY area early in childhood. WE develop it as a result of society and biological urges. If society taught us to be gay I bet at least half would be gay. The only reason why I say 90 percent wouldn't be gay if society taught us that we were supposed to be gay is that there are certain biological urges that gear us to being straight so the inverse wouldn't be exactly the same.

Take Care, Souped_up

Thats nutso!! Sexuality is actualy "aknowledged" and recognized by a child, at least subconsciously, as early as two years old! It is developped as a result of a combination of internal stimulants. Now, get my drift when I say this as sexual behaviours are very different from sexuality...And those can be influenced by external components(abuse etc). My sexuality is homosexual and so are my sexual behaviours, tho not influenced by negative events.

Those same biological urges that drive you to wanna make babies with the opposite sex, drive me to wish I could do the same with my same sex partner!

 

[fantasma62]

Thats nutso!! Sexuality is actualy "aknowledged" and recognized by a child, at least subconsciously, as early as two years old! It is developped as a result of a combination of internal stimulants. Now, get my drift when I say this as sexual behaviours are very different from sexuality...And those can be influenced by external components(abuse etc). My sexuality is homosexual and so are my sexual behaviours, tho not influenced by negative events.

Those same biological urges that drive you to wanna make babies with the opposite sex, drive me to wish I could do the same with my same sex partner!

Well put...

 

[Souped_up]

Thats nutso!! Sexuality is actualy "aknowledged" and recognized by a child, at least subconsciously, as early as two years old! It is developped as a result of a combination of internal stimulants. Now, get my drift when I say this as sexual behaviours are very different from sexuality...And those can be influenced by external components(abuse etc). My sexuality is homosexual and so are my sexual behaviours, tho not influenced by negative events.

Those same biological urges that drive you to wanna make babies with the opposite sex, drive me to wish I could do the same with my same sex partner!

Hi crazy,

The first part doesn't prove anything just rambling. As for answering your 2nd part your just confusing love and sex. You can love your own Gender I never said you couldn't otherwise you couldn't love your own family or dad or friends for fear of incestual or homosexual feelings. I love my Mom and my dad and sister, friends, doesn't mean I want to have sex with them. The drive to have babies has nothing to do with someone you love. You either want kids or not most decide as youngsters if they wan't kids someday. Sex, love, and procreating are biologically geared towards heterosexual relationships but bisexuals and Gays get things mixed up sometimes and love their male friends in a different way then they should.

Take Care, Souped_up

 

[John H.]

John im feeling left out. you replied to everyone but me. so your avidly against religion. i can understand that. a lot of men have done some bad things in the name of god. so lets think this out. you accept the fact that there is a god. whats our relationship with him? i propose we use the term father. so, we have a father in heaven. lets further assume that he has given us a purpose on this earth. fair enough? so we have a father in heaven and he has a plan for us. follow me so far? he probably wants us to understand the plan he has for us (our purpose for being here). right? so what does he do? he teaches it to some of his children (prophets) who then teach it to the rest of us. what you have is religion. plain and simple. now i will agree and say there are false prophets. men out there who say "follow me" and "ive had a vision" and unfortunatly multiple religions are formed because man has corrupted the teachings of god. however this does not mean the original truth that there is a god and he has a plan for us is wrong. it just means we have to look harder to find the truth. the truth is man must change to meet truths about god. not god change to meet man made truths. the true Church of Jesus Christ is out there john try looking for it instead of dismissing them all because you percieve so many wrongs in religion. and when you find the truth (remember your ALWAYS are looking for the truth right john?) remember the church will be perfect but the people will still be people and not perfect, just trying to be.

Hi Bio-chem,

It is not my intention to leave you out at all - sorry...

Religion IS MAN-MADE. Period. Before you go on about this THINK about what I just said BECAUSE IT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. Have you ever studied the history of the people and those involved with religion? Especially the "higher ups"? To do so honestly and completely and accurately and with an open mind is exactly why I have no use for "religion". Look at all the misery "religion" has been responsible for throughout history. The entire reason this world is in constant turmoil is directly because of "religion" - you only have to look at Iraq and that entire region and its entire history to see that and then look for the same in other places in the world.

Some of the most "peaceful" places in the world have been in the northern climates of the earth... I believe unrest, etc. has a direct connection with the climate (the temperature, humidity, etc.) ... Certainly it is a very big factor.

You bring up God. You say He is Our Father. That is fine. Me being a Father myself I can tell you I would NEVER have others speak for me. I would do my own speaking. And I would NEVER put on ALL my children the mistakes of a few and certainly I would NEVER punish ALL that would follow for evermore because of what one or two did. Remember God is we are "told" all powerful, all knowing, all loving, etc. He could just as easily prevent this from happening in the first place.... Certainly He knows the failings of human beings and I can tell you if I were Him (as a Father) I WOULD NEVER allow human beings to speak for Me - I would do my own... You can not forget what some human beings are capable of doing for their own personal good at the expense of all others. I can tell you if I were "the Father" I would NEVER have created this "mess" (the problems of the world that have existed always with human beings) since I could just as easily as an "all powerful Being" made life a hell of a lot better for the benefit of all people. To have "religion" tell me that things are the way they are because Our Father is pissed off at the mistakes of two of His children and is now making ALL people forevermore suffer is pure bull. There was no answer to this so like so often an answer was created - dreamed up - to try to "put people at ease and somehow understand..."

Remember I said "religion" is man-made - BECAUSE IT IS. There are at least thousands of "religions" each with their own beliefs - thus the conflict between people and how they "believe" and what they "believe". I do not agree that God "created religion" at all. That is a receipe for disaster.

Religion and politics have always been "strange bedfellows".... Look carefully at history and see for yourself.

When I used as an example The Church of Jesus Christ (one "religion" - of many) I was showing how one can believe a certain way - for example multiple wives. I am well aware that today not all continue to believe this but they once did in their beginning and practiced it. Some still do today (around 100,000 or so in that one religion) - that is how they "believe". Remember I said there are THOUSANDS of "religions" each with their own "beliefs" - in fact because of the diversity of human beings you could say that each person hase their own "religious beliefs" and that there are some who "just join" other "organized religions" so they can have people of somewhat like-mind and more importantly be able to socialize with others - a condition which human beings require (to be "left out" somehow and not "part of" is something almost all human beings need - a VERY BASIC need - which is why "religion" can be so powerful and controlling - people do not want to be alone or somehow left out. "Religion" preys on this fear very successfully.

When you want an answer that is accurate and honest you yourself must go to the source and determine as best as possible what that is for yourself not depending on others to do that work which each individual must do for themselves. Anytime you depend on others to do FOR you you can be assured they will and you may not like the result - human beings to like to control others for their own personal gain - you see evidence of that every day. Here is one example:

"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given Liberty to man is eternal vigilence, which condition, if he break. servitude is the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt" (Speech Upon the Right of Election, John Philpot Curran, 1790).

God gave each of us a brain which He expects each of us to utilize to the very best of our ability - part of that IS TO QUESTION ALL THINGS INCLUDING HIM - His very existance - with an open mind and objectively considering ALL information from ALL sources ALL the time. People MUST DO for themselves - doing so it how they know. That does not mean that you can not get help from time to time but each person must always keep their eyes wide open - that is a part of each person's survival. There are predators everywhere...

I see the evidence of God everyday. I also see the evidence of Man everyday.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

Hi John.

Most think im joking when I say I believe this because I have debated this stance before so this is not something im saying at the spur of the moment. Sexuality is not as rigid as many imply. There are many homosexuals that have changed their ways and became christains and got married. I believe a man for example could become bisexual if he has relations with a transexual. THey will consider it a female and gradually over time get relaxed with the notion of being with a guy. Another example is if a guy is watching porn and gets a hardon and his buddy wants to help him out, maybe the guy will "put" up with it just to get a "release". Im not saying homosexuality is ok or right I don't believe it is. Thats why I wouldn't want to try it.

I think my philosophical thinking is above yours because obviously all this pondering about sexuality has never allowed you to see this point of view as a POSSIBILITY.

Take Care, Souped_up

Hi Souped,

I do not agree with you. You say it is biological - you also say it is learned from society...

Certainly we all are influenced by everything. It would be foolhearty to say our environment does not have an effect on each person.... I am saying that a person's sexuality is as born same as the color of your skin, etc. It is a part of each individual's "map" of who they really are. Sexuality is very basic to each individual as well as other basic things about each person. There is variety - variation - in all things in life and living. No one person "fits a mold" exactly... there are variables.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

Hi crazy,

The first part doesn't prove anything just rambling. As for answering your 2nd part your just confusing love and sex. You can love your own Gender I never said you couldn't otherwise you couldn't love your own family or dad or friends for fear of incestual or homosexual feelings. I love my Mom and my dad and sister, friends, doesn't mean I want to have sex with them. The drive to have babies has nothing to do with someone you love. You either want kids or not most decide as youngsters if they wan't kids someday. Sex, love, and procreating are biologically geared towards heterosexual relationships but bisexuals and Gays get things mixed up sometimes and love their male friends in a different way then they should.

Take Care, Souped_up

Hi Souped,

ANYONE can have children if they want to - or not. "Mistakes" happen everyday (according to the viewpoint of some...). That is the simple part of it all. The "mechanics" of "having children". (I do not think I need to go into the exact "methods" of that here...) It does not matter if a person is Heterosexual, BiSexual or Homosexual - each CAN have children as long as you have one male and one female in the equation and they "get together". Having children is the simple part. WANTING children is another matter. LOVING children TRUTHFULLY is certainly another... Even people who have children do not WANT them - regardless of their Sexuality. Even Heterosexual people do NOT WANT children... With some especially AFTER they "now have them"... You see evidence of that everyday.

Take Care, John H.

 

[bio-chem]

I would NEVER have others speak for me. I would do my own speaking. And I would NEVER put on ALL my children the mistakes of a few and certainly I would NEVER punish ALL that would follow for evermore because of what one or two did. Remember God is we are "told" all powerful, all knowing, all loving, etc. He could just as easily prevent this from happening in the first place.... Certainly He knows the failings of human beings and I can tell you if I were Him (as a Father) I WOULD NEVER allow human beings to speak for Me - I would do my own... You can not forget what some human beings are capable of doing for their own personal good at the expense of all others. I can tell you if I were "the Father" I would NEVER have created this "mess" (the problems of the world that have existed always with human beings) since I could just as easily as an "all powerful Being" made life a hell of a lot better for the benefit of all people. To have "religion" tell me that things are the way they are because Our Father is pissed off at the mistakes of two of His children and is now making ALL people forevermore suffer is pure bull. (posted by John H)

Let us all be eternally grateful John H is not God. it seems John your questioning Gods choices here. God did not create the problems john. to insinuate this is foolishness. your understanding of the beliefs of christianity both as a group of different churches and as it pertains to the beliefs of individual churches shows that you have not studied them out. meaning your ignorant of christianity as a whole. Your vieled reference to the fall of adam and eve and the transgression in the garden of eden shows your lack of understanding both of christianity as a whole and as it pertains to that individual doctrine. I will explain this, God has given us as a gift called free agency. this is a gift he will not interfere with. what this means is he has given us the right to choose for ourselves our actions. your right he could have prevented any and all bad things from happening in this world, did you ever stop to think that maybe its part of his plan for us to experience evil, and bad, and horrible things that we might understand the rightous, good, and pure things? oposition in all things john. without bad there is not good. You say you believe in a God, ok thats a start. so i want to understand where your coming from. John what are your beliefs on our relationship with God? what does God want us to do while on this earth? and how will He reveal his will to us, both as a group and as individuals?

 

[bio-chem]

and john for petes sake stop saying the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints still practices polygamy. i dont know where you get the number 100,000 from, but they are not members of that church. nothing pisses me off more than a person implying they know something about a group and passing of false information as fact.

 

[John H.]

I would NEVER have others speak for me. I would do my own speaking. And I would NEVER put on ALL my children the mistakes of a few and certainly I would NEVER punish ALL that would follow for evermore because of what one or two did. Remember God is we are "told" all powerful, all knowing, all loving, etc. He could just as easily prevent this from happening in the first place.... Certainly He knows the failings of human beings and I can tell you if I were Him (as a Father) I WOULD NEVER allow human beings to speak for Me - I would do my own... You can not forget what some human beings are capable of doing for their own personal good at the expense of all others. I can tell you if I were "the Father" I would NEVER have created this "mess" (the problems of the world that have existed always with human beings) since I could just as easily as an "all powerful Being" made life a hell of a lot better for the benefit of all people. To have "religion" tell me that things are the way they are because Our Father is pissed off at the mistakes of two of His children and is now making ALL people forevermore suffer is pure bull. (posted by John H)

Let us all be eternally grateful John H is not God. it seems John your questioning Gods choices here. God did not create the problems john. to insinuate this is foolishness. your understanding of the beliefs of christianity both as a group of different churches and as it pertains to the beliefs of individual churches shows that you have not studied them out. meaning your ignorant of christianity as a whole. Your vieled reference to the fall of adam and eve and the transgression in the garden of eden shows your lack of understanding both of christianity as a whole and as it pertains to that individual doctrine. I will explain this, God has given us as a gift called free agency. this is a gift he will not interfere with. what this means is he has given us the right to choose for ourselves our actions. your right he could have prevented any and all bad things from happening in this world, did you ever stop to think that maybe its part of his plan for us to experience evil, and bad, and horrible things that we might understand the rightous, good, and pure things? oposition in all things john. without bad there is not good. You say you believe in a God, ok thats a start. so i want to understand where your coming from. John what are your beliefs on our relationship with God? what does God want us to do while on this earth? and how will He reveal his will to us, both as a group and as individuals?

Hi Bio-chem,

I utilized that one example because it is so outrageous to ask that people believe that as something that is actually true. I AM a Father and I LOVE my children and I certainly would not cause ALL children to suffer for the mistakes of only two FOR EVER AFTER. One of the basics of Christianity is that we ALL are somehow sinners and the Adam and Eve example is one of the "stories" utilized to have all of us "believe". To me another is the one you show: the free-will theory. Certainly most DO exactly as they want. You see evidence of that everyday.

I have a real problem with people telling me God PUT human beings "in charge" of His "teachings" and "thoughts" BECAUSE GOD CERTAINLY KNOWS THE FAILINGS OF HUMAN BEINGS - hell He created us all. Someone that is all powerful, all knowing, all loving, etc. has the ability to NOT have this bull happen and certainly if you LOOK at history NOTHING HAS CHANGED with human beings - they ALL still make the same mistakes NEVER REALLY LEARNING from those mistakes. WHY HAVE THIS EXERCISE? There IS NO POINT TO THIS FOOLISHNESS and IT IS A HUGE WAIST OF TIME, creates a LOT of unhappiness, ad infinitum, certainly someone who is so powerful, knowing, loving, etc. does not have to waist His Time or that of all human beings to go through all of this bull. I feel this "explanation" is put forth by the "religious higher-ups" to answer the unanswerable because they could not come up with a "better explanation". And they ignore totally what IS in Nature and the Natural world...

To me a person does not have to "belong to any religion". And "religion" does NOT have to be so "complicated" in the first place. It IS what IS in a person's heart and soul, mind and spirit and HOW they treat ALL others that matters. BEING decent to other people all the time. NEVER just using others for your own personal gain. "Religious leaders" are certainly guilty of this - they prey on others for their own personal gain. Look at the history of all religions and the people that head them. Sure you have some that are "ok" but the majority are not. And the MONEY, the POWER, etc. those individuals WANT OVER OTHERS is the PROBLEM. They really are not truthfully interested in anyone'e well-being except their own. That usually translated to THEIR POCKETS. Religion and politics have always been strange bedfellows because they operate very much the same way. They are out to control others. Anytime anyone LETS others DO for them they end up being controlled somehow by others and loose themselves. That is a very important reason why God gives each of us a brain FOR US TO UTILIZED to the very best of our ability and TO QUESTION ALL THINGS FROM ALL PERSPECTIVE WITH AN OPEN MIND OBJECTIVELY.

You ask how does He reveal. LOOK around you (meaning anyone) with OPEN EYES. QUESTION EVERYTHING because that is how anyone learns.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

and john for petes sake stop saying the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints still practices polygamy. i dont know where you get the number 100,000 from, but they are not members of that church. nothing pisses me off more than a person implying they know something about a group and passing of false information as fact.

Hi Bio,

I NEVER said ALL DO. The 100,000 figure is an aproximation based on public information regarding the same. There is a faction of The Church which does still believe and act on this way. I can't remember the town or area in Utah right off where these people live...

It is not my intention to piss anyone off - I was merely stating that there is a part of THIS church that does believe this way - as with ALL "religions" each have their own variations in their beliefs. There ARE THOUSANDS of "religions" - perhaps more.

Take Care, John H.

 

[bio-chem]

ill let your answer about religion speak for itself. your logic has so many holes in it any moderatly literate person will realize its flaws. Finally and one last time. No member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saint practices or is affiliated with any group who practices polygamy. your information is wrong john and yet you still act as though you have a clue despite repeated corections to the truth. there are groups in utah in small communities who practice polygamy, these groups are not members of, or affiliated with the church of Jesus Christ in any way. period. end of story. they are no more factions of that church then the church of england is a faction of the catholic church. no affiliation. and to imply a conection is assinine.

 

[crazy_enough]

ill let your answer about religion speak for itself. your logic has so many holes in it any moderatly literate person will realize its flaws. Finally and one last time. No member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saint practices or is affiliated with any group who practices polygamy. your information is wrong john and yet you still act as though you have a clue despite repeated corections to the truth. there are groups in utah in small communities who practice polygamy, these groups are not members of, or affiliated with the church of Jesus Christ in any way. period. end of story. they are no more factions of that church then the church of england is a faction of the catholic church. no affiliation. and to imply a conection is assinine.

And to back that up:not from me of course, from a website!!!)



For several decades, polygamy was encouraged as both in keeping with God's law and good for the protection and care of the many widows and orphans. Brigham Young, the Prophet of the church at that time, had quite a few wives, as did many other church leaders.

This early practice of polygamy caused conflict between church members and the wider American society. The United States Congress enacted legislation permitting the confiscation of church assets and the assets of church leaders. The Army was sent to Utah and, for a time, occupied Salt Lake City.

To end the conflict, and as a condition of Utah statehood, Church leadership prohibited the practice in 1890, claiming that the practice ended in the same manner as it began, with a revelation from on high. Church members today who attempt to marry more than one wife are excommunicated. However, some small groups refused to accept the prohibition of polygamy, were cut off from the Church, formed their own churches and continue to practice it to this day.

Modernization and Americanization (c. 1898 to c. 1945)

When the Church renounced polygamy in <A title=1890 href="http://pheeds.com/info/guide/1/18/1890.html?dw">1890, and Utah received statehood in 1896, Latter-day Saints for the first time saw an opportunity to begin entering the modern American mainstream. . . .

 

[Pepper]

John H's comments on religion are and always have been completely ridiculous. He just makes it up as he goes along.

When John H talks religion, it is best to ignore him.

 

[craig777]

John H's comments on religion are and always have been completely ridiculous. He just makes it up as he goes along.

When John H talks religion, it is best to ignore him.

Not just religion, on all of his one subjects

 

[bio-chem]

tired of all the bs in this world huh john? a lot of us feel the same way about your posts. and its not the topics you chose to write about. sexual topics or religion can be amazing intelectual conversations. yet some how you manage to bog them down with what boils down to false misleading propaganda.

 

[John H.]

ill let your answer about religion speak for itself. your logic has so many holes in it any moderatly literate person will realize its flaws. Finally and one last time. No member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saint practices or is affiliated with any group who practices polygamy. your information is wrong john and yet you still act as though you have a clue despite repeated corections to the truth. there are groups in utah in small communities who practice polygamy, these groups are not members of, or affiliated with the church of Jesus Christ in any way. period. end of story. they are no more factions of that church then the church of england is a faction of the catholic church. no affiliation. and to imply a conection is assinine.

Hi Bio,

If you ask them they will say they are and have. They still follow the original teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ... Now I have not gone to the community where these people live and saw for myself. It has been shown on national television and in newsmagazines. And if I remember right there were roughtly 100,000 that still practice this. The State of Utah is currently figuring out if they are going to prosecute these people for their practices ("beliefs").

As for the Church of England, it became a church - a "religion" - all its own after breaking away from the Catholic Church . King Henry got pissed off at what the Pope told him he could or could not do and that is how the Church of England was born. Martin Luther was originally a Catholic and he could not put up with what the church was doing and saying and he and his followers broke away from it and formed the Lutheran Church (religion)... Look at most religions and see how they came into being. Study the history of each church from their beginnings and the people assocated with those "religions" FROM THE BEGINNING and you will see for yourself. Do that accurately and honestly and you will see.

Like I said originally, "religion" DOES speak for itself by its actions and the people asssociated therewith. Same with politics - all the time - through out history. If you really want to KNOW all you have to do IS DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH. If you do that honestly YOU WILL SEE GUARANTEED.

I never ask anyone to "just believe" anything I have to say. I do my talking and let THEM DO their own research on whether what I said is wrong or not. IF they DO their own research THEY WILL FIND I was not lying.

Why are you so upset with me? I am merely expressing to you and any others interested what IS TRUE. Check it out for yourself. Now if what I say happens to cause you to be angry it is NOT because what I have said is not true. It may upset you to hear something truthful... I am not out to upset anyone.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

John H's comments on religion are and always have been completely ridiculous. He just makes it up as he goes along.

When John H talks religion, it is best to ignore him.

Hi Pepper,

What I have said IS TRUE. PERIOD. So now you are saying that something that is TRUE is radiculous? As for me "...making things up as he goes along" - THAT IS TOTALLY UNTRUE. If you or anyone else does not believe what I have to say that is fine. See for yourself what I have said AND CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF. DO YOU OWN RESEARCH.

Did you ever wonder why there are so many "religions" each with their own beliefs? People QUESTION.

The TRUTH that is accurate and honest and complete IS what is TRUTH. Nothing more.

As a human being, like anyone else, I certainly can make mistakes. But I do my best when writing about things very important to BE ACCURATE AND HONEST AND COMPLETE. Why would I do otherwise? What would that "get me"? What would be the point?

To make a statement you have just made is kinda irresponsible actually, respectfully speaking.

Take Care, John H.

 

[bio-chem]

This is actually kinda funny to see you continue posting john. you have been shown to be wrong, both by myself and crazy enough. and yet still you hold to your falseities. does it hurt to kick against the pricks? on one hand you say "if you ask them they will say they are and have" and in the next you admit you have never been to their communities and seen for yourself. (i have) so you speak for a group you have never had interactions with. sounds believeable to me. ha ha ha. john each group considers the other apostate. so where is the connection? and dont lecture me on the beginings of the schism that led to the formation of the church of england or that martin luther was a catholic. I'm every bit as well versed on the history of christianity as you are. i would not begin to lecture you on something to do with your farm, because i have only a limited experience of working on a farm myself, and yet you speak as if you are an authority on religions when it is obvious to every one (except yourself) you know only limited amounts on the subject. truthfull john i feel sorry for you. it seems you are only capable of seeing the negatives in religions. you hold on to the stories of sex scandals and corruptions of man and imply there is no good in religion. john the cup is not half empty as it appears you believe. your pessimism and hatred only hurt you and unfortuneatly you children. when i see the history of christianity and the foundations of the many different religions i see men of faithfullness and belief like martin luther and john calvin. men of courage who had faith in God, and a Christ like love for their fellow man (the platonic kind of love john) that they were willing to sacrifice their lives, liberties, and reputations so that their fellow man may taste of the goodness as they had. i see in the history of Christianity the early apostles who sacrificed their lives as their friend and Savior Jesus Christ had. the Christians who died in the colliseum of rome because they would not renounce their faith in Christ. The puritians who fled europe to start colonies in the new world so they may worship God according to the dictates of their own conscience. members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints who fled their homes on multiple occasions to end up in the west in order to worship God in peace as their countries founding fathers desired. and i also see outside of Christianity the muslims living the teachings of muhamad and worshiping allah in peace. or iraq's citizens around the world lining up to vote so that iraq may have a new begining. im sorry john i see too many acts of faith by good men to give up on religion now. im sorry that you dont.