Nearly 50% of all Men...

[Pepper]

Hey, John H,

 

[bio-chem]

that is funny. i like that a lot.

 

[John H.]

This is actually kinda funny to see you continue posting john. you have been shown to be wrong, both by myself and crazy enough. and yet still you hold to your falseities. does it hurt to kick against the pricks? on one hand you say "if you ask them they will say they are and have" and in the next you admit you have never been to their communities and seen for yourself. (i have) so you speak for a group you have never had interactions with. sounds believeable to me. ha ha ha. john each group considers the other apostate. so where is the connection? and dont lecture me on the beginings of the schism that led to the formation of the church of england or that martin luther was a catholic. I'm every bit as well versed on the history of christianity as you are. i would not begin to lecture you on something to do with your farm, because i have only a limited experience of working on a farm myself, and yet you speak as if you are an authority on religions when it is obvious to every one (except yourself) you know only limited amounts on the subject. truthfull john i feel sorry for you. it seems you are only capable of seeing the negatives in religions. you hold on to the stories of sex scandals and corruptions of man and imply there is no good in religion. john the cup is not half empty as it appears you believe. your pessimism and hatred only hurt you and unfortuneatly you children. when i see the history of christianity and the foundations of the many different religions i see men of faithfullness and belief like martin luther and john calvin. men of courage who had faith in God, and a Christ like love for their fellow man (the platonic kind of love john) that they were willing to sacrifice their lives, liberties, and reputations so that their fellow man may taste of the goodness as they had. i see in the history of Christianity the early apostles who sacrificed their lives as their friend and Savior Jesus Christ had. the Christians who died in the colliseum of rome because they would not renounce their faith in Christ. The puritians who fled europe to start colonies in the new world so they may worship God according to the dictates of their own conscience. members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints who fled their homes on multiple occasions to end up in the west in order to worship God in peace as their countries founding fathers desired. and i also see outside of Christianity the muslims living the teachings of muhamad and worshiping allah in peace. or iraq's citizens around the world lining up to vote so that iraq may have a new begining. im sorry john i see too many acts of faith by good men to give up on religion now. im sorry that you dont.

Hi Bio,

First of all a person has to read the book I originally talked about in the original post on this thread. If you do not then you will not know what I am talking about or what the author is talking about and where he got his information to write the book.

See HIS SOURCES for yourself if you do not believe what he wrote.

See what I originally said in the beginning. And what I asked.

My statements to you were based on what I have seen on television and in the major news magazines and other sources. Was I ever AT the actual location where this was reported. No. I never said I was. And I would - and most probably no one else would - ever be allowed in. It is a closed community. It is in Utah. In that community they apparently do not allow television or any outside information coming in or allow any out. There is very little communication whatsoever other than say the say the weather...

I brought up The Church of Jesus Christ as an example of one religion and some of what they originally believe and some still do - nothing more. It IS an example of one of the thousands that exist. That was my point. Each HAS their own beliefs and there are differences between religions and their beliefs.

What I have said is true. It is based on the information I have from many sources. To actually KNOW what is going on would require anyone to BE THEIR and BE a "chuch mouse" so-to-speak. The Attorney General apparently has a lot of interest in this community and what they are doing or not - thus the reason for all the reporting from many sources that has been done. Do I know EXACTLY every move the Pope makes EVERY DAY? No. No one does unless he were the Pope himself. But I can get a pretty good idea from sources and I will use sources on any question from many places and perspectives and can make a determination as to accuracy based on the whole of that information. And I will continue to research it as best as possible.

As for me being an "authority" on religion - I never said that and never claimed that. Or inferred that. I said for others to DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH on them and SEE for themselves where they have questions. As with anything that is what a person can do if they want TRUTHFUL answers and accurate answers. I do KNOW based on present and past practices what "religions" do, can do, are capable of doing, etc. And of my personal experiences with all kinds of "religions". I see the sum of what they do both good and bad. THEY make THEIR histories. THEY are the authors of what they do or not. THEIR actions speak. "Religions" DO FORCE upon others their beliefs. They DO THAT all the time. They DO seek to influence legislation of governments based on THEIR beliefs. When you realize there are THOUSANDS of "religions" each with their own beliefs where would there be any peace in this world if each "religion" is allowed to influence? There NEVER WOULD BE. Which is why there is separation of church and state here in the USA - or was the original intent of our Founding Fathers BECAUSE of the ABUSES of "religions" in the past and the sure desire of them in the future. It was the desire of our Founding Fathers to have a country that could INCLUDE all people of ALL faiths or persuasions WITHOUT interference and influence.

You give your examples. How about the murder of the "witches" in New England? That was based on "religion" and "religious belief" and supposedly God. Yet today we know that the problems those people had was NOT at all based on anything "religious" but on the environment where they lived yet RELIGION PUT THEM TO DEATH based on the beliefs of "religious people". Same with the American Indians. Ad infinitum.

Christianity is just ONE "religion". There ARE OTHERS - MANY OTHERS - each with their own beliefs which do differ. If there is ever to be peace and harmony anywhere each can and should believe as they wish but it MUST NEVER influence the life of others who do not hold to their creeds. And it should not be forced down the throats of others and legislation must never be influenced by those various religions which is what they try to do all the time. Thus world-wide unrest and unending war.

You seem to be wrapped up in "Christianity". That is fine for you. But you (meaning anyone here) have no right to force that upon others. Each person is ENTITLED to believe as they wish hopefully based on the most complete, accurate, honest, truthful, etc. information available and possible now and in the future. Learning is life long. And no one knows it all. Or ever will.

Just because I have not much use for "religions" BASED ON THEIR PRACTICES does not mean that I do not see that there is a Great Spirit or Creator. More often than not there is a HUGE difference when you are speaking of "religions" and God - a HUGE void between each.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

John H's comments on religion are and always have been completely ridiculous. He just makes it up as he goes along.

When John H talks religion, it is best to ignore him.

Hi Pepper,

No one is forced to read or do anything - certainly not by me.

When I say something I do it carefully and with information to back up what I have to say. I can make mistakes just as any other person can and when I do I will acknowledge it as soon as I am aware of it.

Here's the thing, anyone that does not agree with what I discuss can always check it out for themselves and see for themselves - accurately - if what I have said is somehow untrue and then say so and how exactly what I have said is incorrect. We are here to have a discussion about whatever. Talking about things is one way people become more UNDERSTANING - not necessarily always agreeing but hopefully UNDERSTAND better than they did before.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

Not just religion, on all of his one subjects

Hi Craig,

I never ask people to just agree with me on anything necessarily but to do their own work on finding out what truly is... and accurately.


On another note, I think I asked before but I am not sure: is that a photo of you as you exist now under your name? If it is, I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate the damn hard work you are putting into your workouts - you are DOING a BEAUTIFUL JOB!! KEEP IT UP!!!

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

Hey, John H,

Hi Pepper,

Is that a photo of you? Just wondering. And NOT being in any way disrespectful but I have to say this is exactly how I see "religious leaders" speaking to their followers. And they look at lot like this and conduct themselves this way a lot.

I believe God (the REAL One) is much kinder.

Take Care, John H.

 

[dstack]

If you are speaking to me, no not at all. I am merely stating there is a book which discusses what has happened in the past and the sources used to write the book. Does a Hetereosexual person have to "rationalize" their Heterosexuality? No Homosexual or BiSexual person I know of ever does that. It is important for ALL to UNDERSTAND honestly about ALL things objectively though - otherwise they truly know or learn nothing honestly.

Take Care, John H.

I just want to stand along side John H and say that we gay people are everywhere.

My life has been full of paradox. The greatest challenge of my life was to accept myself as a gay man when I had been brought up to believe that being gay is unnatural, among other things. Although my family remains completely unsupportive after 11 years of knowing my sexual orientation, the dignity and strength that I???ve gained from self-acceptance has been invaluable.

I was born in Africa as a missionary kid and raised in a fundamentalist, evangelical Christian family. You can read more in the article below.
Article on "DSTACK" (Rod Stephens)

 

[Little Wing]

amazing thanks for sharing. i'm really sorry to hear your family's reaction. my daughter is 13 and openly says she is bi-curious. i think it's great that she is so sure that she will be accepted no matter what and only hope my son feels the same. their dad is bi-sexual and grew up in an environment, extremely religious family in small town usa, where he had no hope of being accepted as he was so he hid it and suffered a lot of shame which i think caused him to become an angry and very self destructive person. he is a young, beautiful extremely talented man who caved under the anguish of growing up knowing the people who loved him and were his friends would turn their backs if they knew who he really was. he has spent much of his young teen and adult life incarcerated. we were divorced nearly 8 yrs ago when my son was an infant i say not because of his sexuality but it was most certainly due to the way his sexuality not being accepted made him deal with life. i would encourage any parent to hold their babies and swear to love them always no matter what and let them know your love is dependable. i cannot fathom turning your back on your child.

 

[John H.]

I just want to stand along side John H and say that we gay people are everywhere.

My life has been full of paradox. The greatest challenge of my life was to accept myself as a gay man when I had been brought up to believe that being gay is unnatural, among other things. Although my family remains completely unsupportive after 11 years of knowing my sexual orientation, the dignity and strength that I???ve gained from self-acceptance has been invaluable.

I was born in Africa as a missionary kid and raised in a fundamentalist, evangelical Christian family. You can read more in the article below.
Article on "DSTACK" (Rod Stephens)

Hi Dstack,

Sounds like you were raised in an environment that would damn you to hell for BEING who God INTENDED you TO BE.

A lot of what everyone is "told" is just that. It is NOT based on the FACTS as THEY ARE.

Please read if you have not already the book FORBIDDEN FRIENDSHIPS by Michael Rocke (Oxford University Press) and BIOLOGICAL EXUBERANCE, by Bruce Bagemihl (St. Martin's Press). The first book talks about what happened in Florence Italy around 1400-1500 A. D. and the second book talks about what happens in Nature NATURALLY. And there are more damn good books that give the FACTS as they ARE. People are born as they ARE. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all with regard to a person's Sexual Orientation. As long as those you or anyone are involved with are of age and ability of consent and give that consent freely and that you CARE FOR EACH OTHER HONESTLY nothing more need be said nor should cause any "concern" by anyone. It is a very personal matter between two consenting people who consent freely and CARE HONESTLY.

I am a BiSexual Man and learned real quick what it was all about and the "why" of it all and I am COMPLETELY FINE with it and KNOW about it. And KNOW there is very valid purpose behind it all.

Always BE who you where BORN to BE. As intended. Be honest with yourself always.

Take Care, John H.

 

[devildog88]

John,

Have you ever considered that it isn't God that wants you to be gay but Satan instead? The temptation is as real as any other forbidden sin.

 

[John H.]

John,

Have you ever considered that it isn't God that wants you to be gay but Satan instead? The temptation is as real as any other forbidden sin.

Hi "Devil",

Coming from "you" (the "Devil") I would think you WOULD want to take "credit" but again God foils you - a person's Sexuality IS FROM GOD and INTENDED by HIM.

As for "forbidden sin" I REALLY wonder if it is "YOU" (the "Devil") that "drives" religion and "religious beliefs"? (for later on when IF you are "successful" I end up WHERE YOU "ARE"!!!)

Take Care, John H.

 

[devildog88]

Obviously I have caught you in another lie. If you were truely a "veteran" as you said before you would know that a "Devil Dog" is the name that the Germans gave the US Marines in the battle of Bellue Wood. It was given because of the fierce nature of the Marines. Has nothing to do with the anti-Christ!

 

[Pepper]

Hi Dstack,

Sounds like you were raised in an environment that would damn you to hell for BEING who God INTENDED you TO BE.

John, I can ignore most of the homosexual crap you post but when you start claiming that God wants you to be a homosexual, it makes me want to pull my hair out one-by-one.

 

[John H.]

Obviously I have caught you in another lie. If you were truely a "veteran" as you said before you would know that a "Devil Dog" is the name that the Germans gave the US Marines in the battle of Bellue Wood. It was given because of the fierce nature of the Marines. Has nothing to do with the anti-Christ!

Hi Devil,

No, I knew that actually. I was referring to your statement to me about my "sinning" and you "being a Devil" (or a Satan yourself) - see what I mean?

(By the way, I AM a veteran in war - FOR SURE - I just do not want to "relive" what I and others went through because what I and they did was more than ENOUGH!! I do not want to "revisit" that ... Hope you can UNDERSTAND that!!)

And I stand by what I said to you. Re-read what I said, and carefully and you will see what I mean.

Oh, by the way, God NEVER said and Christ NEVER said ONE WORD EVER about Heterosexuality, BiSexuality and Homosexuality being somehow "wrong" and IF it was THEY WOULD HAVE - THEMSELVES (NOT someone else!!!) - said so - MANY TIMES. NEVER ONCE did THEY!!!

Take Care, John H.

 

[devildog88]

John,
You are rationalizing a behavior that is wrong. All of your statements all of your therories only serve to make you feel better about yourself. If God wanted you to be a homo he would have created Adam and Allen not Eve. I believe God's reason for creating a man and a women was to provide a companionship, but more importantly so that the human race could populate itself. He didn't intend on Adam having a son and then to cornhole him!

 

[John H.]

John, I can ignore most of the homosexual crap you post but when you start claiming that God wants you to be a homosexual, it makes me want to pull my hair out one-by-one.

Hi Pepper,

That very well could be because of how and what you learned and were taught. Now if you look at ALL things from ALL sides OBJECTIVELY with AN OPEN MIND you will begin to see things from ALL sides.

It is NOT my intention to cause anyone to be upset for any reason. All anyone has to DO is DO HONEST ACCURATE COMPLETE research themselves and they will get answers they are seeking. HONESTLY.

Look at Nature, for example, which is another place in life where EACH of the Sexualities EXIST NATURALLY. God made Nature. God made Man. We ARE ALL a part of Nature and the Natural World and as with anything in life THERE IS VARIETY - IN ALL THINGS - INTENDED so.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

John,
You are rationalizing a behavior that is wrong. All of your statements all of your therories only serve to make you feel better about yourself. If God wanted you to be a homo he would have created Adam and Allen not Eve. I believe God's reason for creating a man and a women was to provide a companionship, but more importantly so that the human race could populate itself. He didn't intend on Adam having a son and then to cornhole him!

Hi Devil,

NO! LISTEN to what it IS YOU ARE SAYING YOURSELF: the "story" of Adam and Eve - a STORY, a FAIRY TALE. A part of Biblical LITERATURE.

ASK YOURSELF THIS: God who is said to be ALL powerful, ALL loving, ALL knowing, and IS OUR FATHER etc. creates Adam and Eve and they have Sex together which "He forbids" and so the end result we are "told" is that God then (who we are "told" is Our Father) is angry at EVERYONE who THEN THEREAFTER IS BORN and EACH PERSON born thereafter has "original sin" because of what THESE TWO PEOPLE DID!!! COME ON!!! If you believe that "story"!!!! How as a FATHER would He be ANGRY FOREVER at ALL people subsequently born - even little CHILDREN and DAMN them to "eternal damnation" for what TWO PEOPLE did???!!!! That IS PURE BULL and a STORY that was made up to answer the unanswerable.

It IS a FACT that GOD NEVER SAID and CHRIST NEVER SAID - with regard to the Sexualities and that IN NATURE which God CREATED there exists NATURALLY Heterosexuality, BiSexuality and Homosexuality and always has.

As for your Adam and Allen, He made ALL people. Male and Female. Or Whoever you perceive God to be. And as for population, just how many MORE people does this world NEED???!!!! I mean come on, the world IS NOW VERY OVER-POPULATED because RELIGION has forced down the throats of people that situation and that the "only reason for sex is for procreation" - that is PURE BULL. There are, like everything else, MANY REASONS FOR EVERYTHING and MANY PURPOSES. And VARIATIONS!!! VARIETY is in ALL THINGS. Naturally so. INTENDED!!

Also, NOT ALL Homosexual people engage in "corn-holing" their partners. That is an "assumption" on your part.

Also, remember the "story" of Cain and Abel - how did TWO MEN have CHILDREN? There was no mention of any FEMALES???


Take Care, John H.

 

[devildog88]

John,
Your perception of religion and God is somewhat skewed. It all starts with not believing the story of Adam and Eve. That is the foundation for the Christian belief. It is called Creation and it is the "story" of how God began life on this planet. Stop rationalizing your sexual perversions with my God. I feel sorry for you John. Because of your lost soul you will indeed rot in hell for an eternity! I will pray for your soul to have an awakening.

Good Day

 

[Pepper]

Hi Pepper,

That very well could be because of how and what you learned and were taught. Now if you look at ALL things from ALL sides OBJECTIVELY with AN OPEN MIND you will begin to see things from ALL sides.

It is NOT my intention to cause anyone to be upset for any reason. All anyone has to DO is DO HONEST ACCURATE COMPLETE research themselves and they will get answers they are seeking. HONESTLY.

Look at Nature, for example, which is another place in life where EACH of the Sexualities EXIST NATURALLY. God made Nature. God made Man. We ARE ALL a part of Nature and the Natural World and as with anything in life THERE IS VARIETY - IN ALL THINGS - INTENDED so.

Take Care, John H.

I learned to read many years ago. I read the Bible and your version of what it says is comical. I don't intend to debate it b/c 1) that is really not appropriate here and 2) more importantly, you have your own version that apparently has passages that most Bibles don't.

Maybe you can provide me a copy of the Gospel of John H. so I can read it.

 

[gococksDJS]

Maybe you can provide me a copy of the Gospel of John H. so I can read it.

I have that copy right here, and it goes;


"Anything pro-gay is good, anything and anyone who doesn't approve of homosexuality is a bigot, zealot bastard who doesn't TRULY know how to live. Penis in the butt is normal, and so is touching little children as long as you claim to be a sexual revolutionary"

 

[westb51]

john you have 1,500 posts. congrats.

 

[Little Wing]

now i just need to convince him i can teach him to post pics and that he's not incapable of learning a few easy pc tricks. imagine john's next 1,500 posts with illustrations.

 

[bio-chem]

I have that copy right here, and it goes;


"Anything pro-gay is good, anything and anyone who doesn't approve of homosexuality is a bigot, zealot bastard who doesn't TRULY know how to live. Penis in the butt is normal, and so is touching little children as long as you claim to be a sexual revolutionary"

 

[bio-chem]

now i just need to convince him i can teach him to post pics and that he's not incapable of learning a few easy pc tricks. imagine john's next 1,500 posts with illustrations.

please dont open up that can of worms rock. of this i beg you

 

[bio-chem]

Hi Devil,

Also, remember the "story" of Cain and Abel - how did TWO MEN have CHILDREN? There was no mention of any FEMALES???


Take Care, John H.

your a fool john

 

[John H.]

John,
Your perception of religion and God is somewhat skewed. It all starts with not believing the story of Adam and Eve. That is the foundation for the Christian belief. It is called Creation and it is the "story" of how God began life on this planet. Stop rationalizing your sexual perversions with my God. I feel sorry for you John. Because of your lost soul you will indeed rot in hell for an eternity! I will pray for your soul to have an awakening.

Good Day

Hi Devil,

MY "perception of evil"?!

"Skewed"?!

I am a father and LOVE my children and I can TELL YOU HONESTLY there is NO WAY EVER I would "damn" all my childlren's children for what some of my children did or not. I might be upset with those that did wrong and for awhile but not for eternity and certainly NEVER pass that on to ALL children subsequently born. I WOULD NEVER DO THAT and would NEVER stay angry that long at anyone. That story is just that "fiction" because those that wrote it could not come up with a better idea about how "original sin" got "started"...

If heaven or hell is like we are "told" I really do not want any part of either. And this world - as it "exists" - is no better. Honestly speaking. At least as far as "man-kind" is concerned.

If you really want someone to feel "sorry about" look to yourself.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

john you have 1,500 posts. congrats.

Hi West,

I wasn't really noticing. Does that mean I have "survived" on this Board?

Thanks!

Take Care, John H.

 

[devildog88]

Hi Devil,

If heaven or hell is like we are "told" I really do not want any part of either. And this world - as it "exists" - is no better. Honestly speaking. At least as far as "man-kind" is concerned.

If you really want someone to feel "sorry about" look to yourself.

Take Care, John H.

Ahh so we have it. You are a person with No belief and one that is unhappy even in this world. See the problem is that you have nothing to look forward to. If Heaven and Hell are what we have been told and you say that this world is no better, than what is there?????? Faith is what makes us unique in this world without it you fall to the same level as all other thinking beings.

 

[John H.]

now i just need to convince him i can teach him to post pics and that he's not incapable of learning a few easy pc tricks. imagine john's next 1,500 posts with illustrations.

Hi Rock,

Just about any of those photos you could get from www.repetrope.com and www.impact-photography.com would represent MEN I would always want to know and have as friends. I work with Guys like those everyday and we get along just fine. And when I say Friends - that IS WHAT I MEAN. They ARE!!

"new tricks"? For what purpose?

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

your a fool john

Bio boy,

Coming from you that is a real compliment.

John H.