no death linked to steroids..really?

[bjg]

i know many will contradict me here and it is a subject that is over discussed but i would like to mention few points especially to those natural and teen bodybuilders.

point #1: If you check the number of bodybuilders and pro athletes that died at a young age (while in perfect shape apparently) you will see a high percentage compared to normal population, while logically it should be the opposite since sports and bodybuilding is supposed to give you better health..then one can logically conclude that there is a common element among those pro athletes that is causing all these death

point #2: you will see articles saying that no death was caused by steroids or proven to be caused by steroids right? well of course ! since all the death are either heart attacks or some kind of cancer or etc... there is no illness called "steroids" that will kill you, it is not easy to DIRECTLY link a heart attack to steroids. they will say his death was not linked to steroids but incidently he was a steroids user.

like saying cigarettes will not kill you...many smokers die from heart attacks and cancer ..but not from cigarettes!!!! smokers will tell you that no death was linked to cigarettes ..of course there is no illness called "cigarettes".

and even worst they will tell you mr so and so died from lung cancer and he does not smoke!

Got my point ?

 

[redz]

Many athletes die from head traumas for example football players going head to head or boxers being repeatidly struck in the head. Pro wrestlers also fall in to this as well many of them are addicted to pain killers and other drugs. It's hard to draw conclusive evidence.

 

[Curt James]

If you check the number of bodybuilders and pro athletes that died at a young age (while in perfect shape apparently) you will see a high percentage compared to normal population

• Cite, please.
• Define high percentage.
• Define normal population.

bjg, I understand you're passionate about natural bodybuilding and believe you have created more than one thread or written more than one post commenting on the dangers of AAS, however it's important that actual studies be conducted.

Unfounded commentary helps no one, imo.

Have you read this?

From Anabolic steroid abuse and cardiac sudde... [Arch Pathol Lab Med. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Curt James]

Many athletes die from head traumas for example football players going head to head or boxers being repeatidly struck in the head. Pro wrestlers also fall in to this as well many of them are addicted to pain killers and other drugs. It's hard to draw conclusive evidence.

Especially without longterm studies. This is another reason AAS should be legalized or decriminalized.

Due to the sizable cost a full series of clinical trials may incur, the burden of paying for all the necessary people and services is usually borne by the sponsor who may be a governmental organization, a pharmaceutical, or biotechnology company. Since the diversity of roles may exceed resources of the sponsor, often a clinical trial is managed by an outsourced partner such as a contract research organization or a clinical trials unit in the academic sector.

More @ Clinical trial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[bjg]

Curt: i really don't need any studies i can see around me what is happening and again many studies done on the same subject are contradictory ..it all depends who is funding these studies...however objective medical books are clear about steroids effects and one does not need a study to reach conclusions.
and who knows perhaps tomorrow a study will come out and tell you that steroids cause a heart attack ..what would you do if you were a steroid user? would you say Fuck iam screwed!
there are no studies stating that smoking directly causes lung cancer and no one knows how cancer really starts and yet you cannot deny that smoking can cause cancer.
and finally i showed in many other threads studies that are conclusive about some steroids causing cysts on internal organs and even causing chromosomal damage to users and offsprings and i mean conclusive studies done on animals.

 

[bjg]

Many athletes die from head traumas for example football players going head to head or boxers being repeatidly struck in the head. Pro wrestlers also fall in to this as well many of them are addicted to pain killers and other drugs. It's hard to draw conclusive evidence.

true ..but search for bodybuilders who died young and you will find a long list ranging from heart attacks to antidepressive medicine overdose, to all kinds of reasons and none is really steroids but all could be TRIGGERED by steroids or indirectly caused by steroids.

 

[Curt James]

Curt: i really don't need any studies i can see around me what is happening and again many studies done on the same subject are contradictory ..it all depends who is funding these studies...however objective medical books are clear about steroids effects and one does not need a study to reach conclusions.
and who knows perhaps tomorrow a study will come out and tell you that steroids cause a heart attack ..what would you do if you were a steroid user? would you say Fuck iam screwed!
there are no studies stating that smoking directly causes lung cancer (snip)

"On average, smokers increase their risk of lung cancer between 5 and 10-fold and in developed countries, smoking is responsible for upwards of 80% of all lung cancers. Using American data, 24% of men who smoke can expect to developing cancer during their expected life time.

Recently, the spread of tobacco use to developing countries has led to papers describing similar patterns there. Thus, in a report from India, roughly two-thirds of all patients with lung cancer were smokers, using either cigarettes and/or bidis, hand-rolled tobacco. Among 54 female patients, only 5% were smokers, reflecting both the low prevalence of tobacco use among women and the cancer-causing effects of environmental tobacco smoke. In a study of 1,000,000 deaths in China, lung cancer risk was two to four times higher among men who smoked compared to men who did not smoke and this association was generally consistent over both rural and urban areas."

From WHO | Cancer

Find that kind of data on AAS.

 

[bjg]

they stated risks and statistics but not conclusive cause of death...they cannot be conclusive like in the case of steroids while everybody knows that the effects of steroids can lead to health problems and death...all i have to do is look around me, i even know pros ( and very well known pros i wont say the name that secretly got treated for serious liver problems)
however studies on rats and cows showed conclusive evidence of steroid effects, such studies cannot be done on humans for obvious reasons

 

[GFR]

OP is a retard and has clearly never read a book in her life.

 

[KelJu]

Curt: i really don't need any studies i can see around me what is happening and again many studies done on the same subject are contradictory ..it all depends who is funding these studies...however objective medical books are clear about steroids effects and one does not need a study to reach conclusions.
and who knows perhaps tomorrow a study will come out and tell you that steroids cause a heart attack ..what would you do if you were a steroid

To say that you do not need an objective study is the argument of mental midgets.


Do steroids have negative side effects? Yes.
Do all people experience negative side effects? No.
Are steroids harmful? Yes.
Do all people experience harmful side effects? No.

The four statements above are fact. What can you derive from them? Not a fucking thing. Those statements are essentially the only facts we have and those four facts can be applied to almost anything we put into our bodies.

We need long-term research to even begin the discussion of how "bad" steroids are. Relying on anecdotes and what we see is retarded. Someone might say that Arnold's heart problems were caused by steroids he took during his career. Well, what about all the other bodybuilders that took just as many steroids as he did, but have no heath problems today. What about Lou? What about Franco?

 

[bigbenj]

We've been down this road a million times.

There's big difference between USE and ABUSE.

Abuse anything, and you're going to run into problems.

Andreas Munzer, abused diuretics and the like. Dead. No surprise, when you're abusing the shit out these things.

Steroids don't kill people. Alcohol doesn't kill people. Guns don't kill people. Cars don't kill people. Bombs don't kill people. People kill people.

Do you understand this?

 

[hypo_glycemic]

^ I understand and you are correct Benj. That's a good way to put it bro

 

[bigbenj]

This dude is always on an anti-steroid crusade.

 

[ANIMALHAUS]

This dude is always on an anti-steroid crusade.

He's such a tool. BJG, why did you find it necessary to post this in a section dedicated to NATURAL BODYBUILDING? I'm so tired of your bullshit propaganda.

 

[chucky1]

He's such a tool. BJG, why did you find it necessary to post this in a section dedicated to NATURAL BODYBUILDING? I'm so tired of your bullshit propaganda.

^ this Im so over seeing you dumb ass posts go some where else dude

 

[Curt James]

To say that you do not need an objective study is the argument of mental midgets.


Do steroids have negative side effects? Yes.
Do all people experience negative side effects? No.
Are steroids harmful? Yes.
Do all people experience harmful side effects? No.

The four statements above are fact. What can you derive from them? Not a fucking thing. Those statements are essentially the only facts we have and those four facts can be applied to almost anything we put into our bodies.

We need long-term research to even begin the discussion of how "bad" steroids are. Relying on anecdotes and what we see is retarded. Someone might say that Arnold's heart problems were caused by steroids he took during his career. Well, what about all the other bodybuilders that took just as many steroids as he did, but have no heath problems today. What about Lou? What about Franco?

I suppose it could be a cover story but his heart problem was reported as congenital.

This dude is always on an anti-steroid crusade.

Stating the obvious. There are other threads if you're not interested in reading his "anti-steroid crusade" posts.

He's such a tool. BJG, why did you find it necessary to post this in a section dedicated to NATURAL BODYBUILDING? I'm so tired of your bullshit propaganda.

Again, there are other threads. This is not AG. Create a bjg thread there.

 

[bigbenj]

So he should go on an anti-steroid campaign, and we should just sit back and watch him spread his bullshit?

This has nothing to do with what section were in this, it has to do with proper reporting and presenting all facts.

 

[Calves of Steel]

Steroids raise your blood pressure, orals mess up your lipids pretty bad, stepping over to the dark side may reduce your inhibitions towards other drugs, and you may end up with lower testosterone levels for life if you abuse them or if you are unlucky. Other than that, it's all cosmetic IMO. Some people can use them safely and responsibly, some can't. They're definitely not for everybody, and especially not for teenagers.

 

[Powermaster]

We all die sometime. Might as well be big, strong, happy, and horny as hell when you go.


....or you could be a whimpy bitch full of estrogen with a huge gut and die of prostate cancer.

I choose option A.

 

[PushAndPull]

We all die sometime. Might as well be big, strong, happy, and horny as hell when you go.


....or you could be a whimpy bitch full of estrogen with a huge gut and die of prostate cancer.

I choose option A.

What the hell? Are you saying that if you don't use gear then you're a whimpy bitch full of estrogen?

 

[BIGBEN2011]

What the hell? Are you saying that if you don't use gear then you're a whimpy bitch full of estrogen?

yes that is what he was sayingd do we need to add dumb to the list all so.

 

[bjg]

Steroids raise your blood pressure, orals mess up your lipids pretty bad, stepping over to the dark side may reduce your inhibitions towards other drugs, and you may end up with lower testosterone levels for life if you abuse them or if you are unlucky. Other than that, it's all cosmetic IMO. Some people can use them safely and responsibly, some can't. They're definitely not for everybody, and especially not for teenagers.

exactly steroids do have bad side effects on EVERYBODY , these side effects do not have to be fatal but they become serious with time until their effects can reach a point where they could become fatal. They could be used safely but usually this is done by mature people not by teens and even young new bodybuilders and by new i mean not before 10 years of lifting.
besides all that i really question anything positive that comes from them except short term cosmetic effect. Is it worth it? for some yes and for some no.
of course one could argue about heart problems due to steroids but remember that steroids will make internal changes including your circulatory system and heart which in time could lead to problems. i personally know people who died suddenly from heart failure and they really looked in competition shape when this happened.
unfortunately some people in this forum do not have the maturity to engage in a discussion , instead they go on with their stupid insults, ..
i am a gym owner and people like that are not allowed to step in my gym.
As pushandpull said: if you are natural does not mean you are wimpy full of estrogen in fact the opposite is true ..juicers will end up wimpy on estrogen ..this is a fact ..NONE of my friends juicers who are my age and even 10 years younger can come Close to me ..simply NONE even with their steroids and all the gear they take..why? because they relied on gear all their lives and i relied on years of hard training. this is a SIMPLE FACT. period.

 

[69grunt]

Young people are not ready for roids,they're are too fuckin' crazy ,they get all emotional
and end up killin' themselves over a girlfriend,or a freakin' ballgame,or flunkin' an exam.

 

[PushAndPull]

yes that is what he was sayingd do we need to add dumb to the list all so.

We could. If you don't use gear then you're a dumb whimpy bitch full of estrogen
Likewise you could say that if you use gear then you're a pussy that couldn't get any size naturally.

 

[Powermaster]

What the hell? Are you saying that if you don't use gear then you're a whimpy bitch full of estrogen?

LOL. Yeah, that's what I said but wasn't serious.

 

[PushAndPull]

^^^ Sometimes it's hard to tell

 

[Zaphod]

exactly steroids do have bad side effects on EVERYBODY , these side effects do not have to be fatal but they become serious with time until their effects can reach a point where they could become fatal. They could be used safely but usually this is done by mature people not by teens and even young new bodybuilders and by new i mean not before 10 years of lifting.
besides all that i really question anything positive that comes from them except short term cosmetic effect. Is it worth it? for some yes and for some no.
of course one could argue about heart problems due to steroids but remember that steroids will make internal changes including your circulatory system and heart which in time could lead to problems. i personally know people who died suddenly from heart failure and they really looked in competition shape when this happened.
unfortunately some people in this forum do not have the maturity to engage in a discussion , instead they go on with their stupid insults, ..
i am a gym owner and people like that are not allowed to step in my gym.
As pushandpull said: if you are natural does not mean you are wimpy full of estrogen in fact the opposite is true ..juicers will end up wimpy on estrogen ..this is a fact ..NONE of my friends juicers who are my age and even 10 years younger can come Close to me ..simply NONE even with their steroids and all the gear they take..why? because they relied on gear all their lives and i relied on years of hard training. this is a SIMPLE FACT. period.

How can you say steroids have a bad side effects on everybody? Especially without any research to back it up.

 

[sassy69]

exactly steroids do have bad side effects on EVERYBODY , these side effects do not have to be fatal but they become serious with time until their effects can reach a point where they could become fatal. They could be used safely but usually this is done by mature people not by teens and even young new bodybuilders and by new i mean not before 10 years of lifting.
besides all that i really question anything positive that comes from them except short term cosmetic effect. Is it worth it? for some yes and for some no.
of course one could argue about heart problems due to steroids but remember that steroids will make internal changes including your circulatory system and heart which in time could lead to problems. i personally know people who died suddenly from heart failure and they really looked in competition shape when this happened.
unfortunately some people in this forum do not have the maturity to engage in a discussion , instead they go on with their stupid insults, ..
i am a gym owner and people like that are not allowed to step in my gym.
As pushandpull said: if you are natural does not mean you are wimpy full of estrogen in fact the opposite is true ..juicers will end up wimpy on estrogen ..this is a fact ..NONE of my friends juicers who are my age and even 10 years younger can come Close to me ..simply NONE even with their steroids and all the gear they take..why? because they relied on gear all their lives and i relied on years of hard training. this is a SIMPLE FACT. period.

Because you can't isolate the conversation to some tightly targeted audience, I think the whole of the older folks who are on HRT would strongly argue this statement. If you've ever seen a guy go thru living w/ naturally low or reduced test levels as he gets older, its really, really sad. Depression, muscle loss, etc. FWIW, you might even argue about how critical birth control has been in helping women over the last several decades, deal w/ raging PMS. Same thing - hormone levels. Low or high - the point is the body operates on homestasis and extremes in any one area produce issues.

 

[Curt James]

Ben, everyone, I encourage you to refute what you see as error without benefit of ad hominem.

 

[bjg]

We could. If you don't use gear then you're a dumb whimpy bitch full of estrogen
Likewise you could say that if you use gear then you're a pussy that couldn't get any size naturally.

the second statement is more accurate
sassy i am not referring to the usage of steroids for medical reasons , i am talking about the use of steroids just for cosmetic reasons, and that for me is already an abuse.
Zaphod of course it has negative effects on everybody such as increasing LDL levels, etc... some of the negative effects of steroids are always present on everybody and all research back it up but some other negative effects are not present or present to a lesser degree. remember that there is a long list of negative effects and a very very short one on positive effects.
i know a girl who is 25 (bb on steroids) with a cholesterol level of fat old guy..and it is not hereditary for a fact, now if she dies (hope not i like her) from a heart attack who is going to blame steroids?