I think Heavyiron has been around, he knows some things. It takes years of training, diet, aas, genetics, and rest to finally get way ahead in this game of getting huge and lean. Lots of young guys on aas look like water fat bombs with no muscle. They have no clue what eating clean truely is. Everything takes TIME. Only a very few have true desire. They think if their taking the drugs they will look like jay cutler!!! It takes so much dedication to every aspect, and if your genetics are not for this sport, just be even more focused on truely the cleanest diet and eating times. Everyone should learn more about nutrition. I have seen so many guys think they are eating clean, when in fact their eating completly wrong so badly and they all look like fat water balls, or skinny lean guys. Most will think their huge but only water and fat, or their skinny as a toothpick but ripped to the bone. Either way their not huge and lean. Sorry to say but most guys have shitty genetics. they just cant build muscle no matter what, funny thing is they think their huge freaks just cause they gain wait. Yeah, in my twenties I took tons of gear thinking I'll look like Lee Haney, but I just looked like pure shit and bp through the roof. In my 30s I got much more devolopement and learning how to train and eat the right way was the key. Now Im in my 40s and am actually at my best. I know the time comes soon where I won't be able to get bigger true muscle, but I can definitely keep all that I have for a decade or two!!! This is why I'm pissed cause if I knew what I know now back when I was 19, well I guess everything happens for a reason. Im a husband with good kids and thats truely my biggest blessings. Have fun kids. Ben, Ive seen the pics you post of you, and you are just starting this ride at the least. You are smart at talking stuff though. I think youre a good guy and perfect for the position you have on this forum.