Pilates only for legs?

[sdupdike]

I've enlisted a very knowledgeable trainer at my gym to help me get ready for a figure competition. (She's done bodybuilding, powerlifting, and triathalons). She has started me out by taking all weighted leg exercises out of my training, squats, deadlifts, everything. She says she wants my shoulders and upper body to develop more and to trim down my legs (they are somewhat muscular, and obvioulsy out of balance with my upper body). She has me doing 3 days upper body with weights and 4 days legs and abs, pilates type stuff, along with 7 days of cardio. What do you think about this? She's going to re-evaluate me after 3 weeks of this, and probably change my program in 6 weeks. I'm 14 weeks out from competition. I didn't expect to be doing no weighted leg exercises and I also didn't expect to start out doing so much cardio. I thought we would gradually increase it. As info, I'm 5'7", 130 lbs, 17%BF.

I hate to second guess her, I'd just like to hear some opinions on the training program she's set up for me.

 

[Hawkwind]

Pilates is still resistance training for the legs. My daughter is a dancer and her exercise routine of choice is pilates. She has a much leaner leg than I do, yet she is still very muscled. I'm in my 40's, she's 20 and we are 10 pounds different in weight with me being the heavier of the two. I'm 5' 7" myself, she's about 5' 6".

(When I do Pilates I do the workout for my legs.)

I can understand where your trainer is coming from on this one if your lower body is more developed than your upper body.

My daughter has a friend that dances and is also in training for fitness competions. (She has background in gymnastics as well as her dance training.) She also favors pilates for some of her training.

I don't think your trainer is leading you astray on this one.
Hope this helps put you mind at ease.

 

[sdupdike]

Thanks for your reply.

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

 

[P-funk]

training legs is a great way to burn calories. they are the largest muscle group in your body. Are you legs that overpowering? I would still train them. If you don't train them you have a better chance of some muscle loss occuring (use it or loose it principle) and strength loss (lack of progressive stimulation).

 

[LAM]

training legs is a great way to burn calories. they are the largest muscle group in your body. Are you legs that overpowering? I would still train them. If you don't train them you have a better chance of some muscle loss occuring (use it or loose it principle) and strength loss (lack of progressive stimulation).

exactly.

all you have to do is to not increase the weights that you use when training legs. it is physiologically impossible for them to continue to grow if the same weight is used.

 

[Hawkwind]

She is training them. Pilates is resistance training. Just not what is common resistance training that those of us in bodybuilding tend to use. Her trainer is trying to keep her leg growth down. She must feel that sdupdike's legs respond very well to weight training at this point and as sdupdike noted her trainer it trying to help her balance out her physique.

Pilates training will help her keep the muscle she already has. She will not lose too much if any muscle with her pilates training. My daughter never, ever trains her legs with traditional weights and her legs are as muscled and developed as mine.
(I have great legs btw...not bragging, they are my 'best' bodypart, if my back would catch up I might actually get somewhere. )
*For those that don't know me. I've been actively training since my 20's, I'm in my 40's. I'm in recovery from an enforced 4 year lay-off. 2 years out from my down time. My daughter has been training since she was 7. I understand the dynamics of both pilates and weight training as I have been active in her training also.

sdupdike, Does your trainer have you using the Pilates Reformer? Or just mat work?
(I'm just curious...both are effective.)

 

[LAM]

you can not compare Pilates to traditional resistance training programs. Pilates is based on dance movements where traditional resistance training programs are correctly based on the muscle and joint functions of the body, not a sport or performance skill. Pilates encourages lengthening of the muscles, I will not even comment on that one.

 

[Hawkwind]

LAM, I will have to respectfully disagree with you. It was not originally based on dance moves. It was later applied to dancers as it complemented their training. Yes it is considered to lengthen the muscle. She should not lose too much if any strength if her trainer has her doing pilates especially if her trainer has her on the reformer.

Either way...with her trainers background in training for bodybuilding, powerlifting, and triathalons I would say her trainer knows what she is doing.

 

[LAM]

Osterberg, K. L. & Melby, C. L., 2000. Effect of acute resistance exercise on postexercise oxygen consumption and resting metabolic rate in young women. International Journal of Sport Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism, 10 (1), 71-81.

Seven females, with an average age of 27 years, height of 66 inches, weight of 141.5 pounds and body fat of 18.3 percent, participated in this research study. Subjects were required to maintain body-weight stability, which the authors defined as no gain or loss of weight greater than 2 kilograms (4.4 pounds) in the last six months. All subjects??? meals were standardized prior to and during the exercise intervention.
The exercise program consisted of five sets of 10 different exercises. The exercises were performed in agonist/antagonist pairs (push/pull sequence), with 10 to 15 repetitions per set. Opposing muscle groups were paired together to avoid premature failure due to muscular fatigue, and the last two sets of each exercise were performed to failure. The exercise groupings consisted of bench press and bent-over row; leg extension and leg curl; military press and sit-ups; biceps curl and triceps extension; and lunges and lateral raises. The subjects were given a four-minute time period to perform the exercise pairs and could rest for the remainder of the time if they finished before the four minutes expired.
EPOC remained elevated throughout the three-hour postexercise measurement phase and was measured every 30 minutes. It was 13 percent higher than pre-exercise baseline oxygen consumption (VO2) in the final measurement stage. The subjects??? average RMR was 4.2 percent higher 16 hours following exercise, when compared to the pre-workout RMR. The authors concluded that intense resistance training produces modest, but prolonged elevation of postexercise metabolic rate in women.

 

[LAM]

The effects of Pilates training on flexibility and body composition: an observational study.

Arch Phys Med Rehabil. 2004 Dec;85(12):1977-81.

Department of Orthopaedics and Rehabilitation, University of Iowa Health Care, Iowa City 52242, USA. neil-segal@uiowa.edu

OBJECTIVE: To assess claims regarding the effects of Pilates training on flexibility, body composition, and health status. DESIGN: An observational prospective study. SETTING: A community athletic club. PARTICIPANTS: A sample of 47 adults (45 women, 2 men) who presented for Pilates training.

INTERVENTIONS: Not applicable. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Fingertip-to-floor distance, truncal lean body mass by bioelectric impedance, health status by questionnaire and visual analog scale were assessed at baseline, 2, 4, and 6 months (+/-1 wk). RESULTS: Thirty-two of 47 enrolled subjects met the protocol requirements of missing no more than 1 weekly 1-hour session Pilates mat class during each 2-month period. Investigators were blinded to measurements from previous time points. Median (interquartile range [IQR]) fingertip-to-floor distance improved from baseline by 3.4 cm (1.3-5.7 cm), 3.3 cm (0.3- 7.8 cm), and 4.3 cm (1.5-7.6 cm) at 2, 4, and 6 months, respectively (paired nonparametric analysis, all P<.01). There were no statistically significant changes in truncal lean body mass, height, weight, or other body composition parameters. Self-assessment of health also did not change in a statistically significant manner from its baseline median (IQR) value of 77 mm (69-85 mm).

CONCLUSIONS: Pilates training may result in improved flexibility. However, its effects on body composition, health status, and posture are more limited and may be difficult to establish. Further study might involve larger sample sizes, comparison with an appropriate control group, and assessment of motor unit recruitment as well as strength of truncal stabilizers.

PMID: 15605336 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Hawkwind]

There were no statistically significant changes in truncal lean body mass, height, weight, or other body composition parameters.

*Chuckle, As I said...she should not lose strength and she should not lose too much if any muscle. (Which if I remember correctly were concerns of sdupdike's.)

LAM...I'm not trying to be rude. I understand what her trainer is trying to accomplish. I'm just not able to communicate what I'm trying to say to you effectively. I tend to be 'long winded' when I post and it's a habit I've been trying to break. Hence me trying to give simplified answers to complex questions.

Comparing pilates to bodybuilding is like comparing apples to oranges. Both are fruit, but different kinds of fruit. (That is putting it very simply.)

You just backed up my point with your second study post. Her trainer knows what she is doing.

 

[P-funk]

the caloric burn of pilates and the caloric burn of leg training are not the same either. She will burn more calories with training legs. she is trying to loose weight. nothing better than doing squats to lose BF in my opinion.

 

[Hawkwind]

P-funk, you are correct. And normally I would say it's as cut and dried as all that.

But! I live with a dancer and I'm a bodybuilder. My daughter is one inch shorter than I and weighs 10 pounds less. She is beautifully muscled. If it were not for the fact that I have been with her through all her years of training I myself would be questioning sdupdike's trainers methods more critically.

Again, I'm not trying to be rude. But sometimes training is not all black and white. There are many gray areas and I still believe that sdupdike's trainer knows what she is doing. The proof will be how she does in her figure competition now won't it?

Again, I'm going to state that is sounds to me like sdupdike sustains leg growth very easily. Her trainer is trying to avoid that at this point to balance her physique.

What I'm trying politely to tell you gents is that there is more than one way to accomplish what sdupdike and her trainer are trying to accomplish. I answered sdupdike based on my knowledge of over 30 years of my training (in body building) and over 10 years of my daughters training (in dance and pilates).

You gentlemen are very 'correct' in your answers, but what sdupdike's trainer is trying to accomplish is to balance out a physique in a limited time. Hence using an amalgam of training techniques. Remember. One size does not fit all in some types of training.

 

[P-funk]

this year, instead of lifting weights for contest I am just doing yoga since my shoulders grow way to fast.

 

[Hawkwind]

Smart alec...she's in figure sweetie. She needs balance and symetry.

I do yoga for flexibility if you want to hi-jack this thread into a different conversation....or maybe I should just post a pic of my legs...that usually stops all conversation...

 

[P-funk]

Smart alec...she's in figure sweetie. She needs balance and symetry.

I do yoga for flexibility if you want to hi-jack this thread into a different conversation....or maybe I should just post a pic of my legs...that usually stops all conversation...

I know what you are trying to say but you are comparing apples to oranges. A leg workout (even at maintenace) is not the same as a pilates workout. Further more there are physiological effects that take place when you do things like squat or deadlift with respect to hormones and chemicals in the body. these can be very helpful in fat loss.


I don't care what your legs look like. I am sure they are fine. Just becasue jay Cutler is big doesn't mean he knows shit about training.

 

[Dale Mabry]

If you are in a caloric deficit, which you should be, your legs won't grow. Period.

 

[Hawkwind]

Further more there are physiological effects that take place when you do things like squat or deadlift with respect to hormones and chemicals in the body. these can be very helpful in fat loss.

No kidding. Since the gloves are off...I thought your comment about yoga was rude. My comment about my legs was an attempt at humor, so it sucked. Shoot me.

I've been trying nicely to say that her trainer seems to have a different approach to her training than the norm for bodybuilding and that it may not be a bad thing. You and I might not do it or need it. And yes it was comparing apples to oranges and I said such.

....oh h*ll....let's agree to disagree. You would use a different approach than her trainer and I happen to think her trainer's approach makes sense.

 

[Dale Mabry]

In fact, I will go a step further. I wrestled in high school which led to my legs getting ridiculously bigger than my upper body, it runs in the family. So, I massacred them with squats and everything in the book, overtraining like a champ. It seems to have helped.

 

[P-funk]

I agree to disagree. I think her trainer is a moron. She asked for opinions on what her trainer is doing with her, not ask us to come in here and blow smoke up her ass or say "I would do something different but it sounds like a neat approach". She asked for opinions, i gave mine. You gave yours. I still don't get how my comment on yoga was rude and we still need to see pics of your legs.

 

[Hawkwind]

I was a bit sensitive to the yoga comment. I'm two years out from four years of enforced down time due to surgeries and lyme disease. All I could do the first 6 months after 4 years of enforced inactivitey was yoga and then pilates. My benches and equipment sat covered through those four years and 6 months. I take my training very seriously. My recovery has been somewhat tough as I also have fibromyalgia. But I'm not a freakin' wuss when it comes to my training.

I can understand why you think her trainers methods are suspect. I can understand where her trainer is coming from. Like I said the proof will be in the results.

And since you agreed to disagree so nicely I'll post some leg pics down in the members section. I've been hanging around here for quite a long time and haven't really posted very often.
(I really can be a bit more agreeable.)

 

[sdupdike]

Wow, I didn't mean to cause such controversy.

Hawkwind, I am just doing mat work, no reformer. I am also in a caloric deficit and doing insane amounts of cardio (compared to what I was doing!).

I only asked this question in the first place because I know what kind of effect leg training has on the body, as P-Funk stated about the hormones and chemicals that are released.

I appreciate all the responses and opinions. I am going to go with what she has me doing for now. I am 14 weeks out, and I know she is going to evaluate me in about 2 weeks to see what kind of changes we may need to make. So we'll go from there.