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So a trainer tells me....

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So a trainer tells me (while im squatting) that my knees are going past my toes. He explained in detail that i need to just drop my ass straight down.

According to him, i move my knees fwd and then my ass drops down.

Also says i hold the bar on my neck instead of my rear lats. But thats another story.

So is it really a big deal? ive been squatting since 08 and have made good progress. I dont see it as physically possible to drop my ass straight down without knees moving fwd slightly.

Even with no weight on the bar, my form seems to involve the knees moving fwd.

Any thoughts or ideas? I tried it barefoot, same knee involvement.

I tried rotating elbows forward as im going down (this was his advice) Still claims im "doing it all wrong."

I have no knee pain whatsoever and ive made good solid gains in the past couple of years.
 
Grow bigger feet. But seriously I wouldn't worry. Different people, different body mechanics. Probably a trainer who just got his trainer card on-line.
 
yeah im gonna rock a pair of clown shoes next time so he cant critique me.

well im assuming its just my mechanics. I have fairly short shin bones. If that matters?
 
its good reason behind his thought
to protect your knees .... however not always poss
if you are careful to drive up with your ass and keep the bar on your back that will help keep the pressure off
 
Only thing I can say is what I have read from Starting Strength. Basically, have your knees wide enough at the bottom of the squat. Double check by squatting without a bar and touching palms together while flaring your elbows out towards your knees. Keep this length throughout the whole squat process.

I had issues during the first couple weeks with my shoulders, getting used to the position of the bar across my lats. But it seems like they have built up the strength to support the angle now. Definately have the bar resting on your lats, less pressure on the spine is ideal.

There was a video posted last week which shows great improvements that can be made with hip drive. I would think you can youtube Rippletoe Squat and you will get some nice ideas of small improvements which could be made.
 
It is ok if your knees pass your toes, it just depends on why they are or how far they are.

Squatting straight down is not efficient, sitting back into the squat is a mechanically superior way to engage the eccentric (downward) movement. When you sit back, you load the posterior chain more, and generally speaking you will be more powerful/stronger because of increased muscle recruitment and increased tension in the hips.

The musculature of the hip joint is wayyy stronger than your quads/knee joint is, and if you sit forward too much you really don't engage the glutes/hammies as well as you could, and you place a lot more tension on the knees and therefore quadriceps.

When you sit back, you balance that load more efficiently, hip ROM is increased and knee ROM is decreased. Stronger all around.
 
Drive your ass back, imagine bending at the hips first. But if you haven't had any injury and don't notice any pain or discomfort, then if it ain't broke don't fix it applies. Some dynamic hip mobility before squatting will help but sounds like you have it under control.
 
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I fwd'd that link to the trainer to see what his reply is. haha
 
in terms of the squat all you can really do is widen/decrease the width of the stance, lower/raise the bar on the shoulders and drop the hips when you go down, that's pretty much it.
 
Mr. Fantastico said:
So a trainer tells me (while im squatting) that my knees are going past my toes. He explained in detail that i need to just drop my ass straight down.

According to him, i move my knees fwd and then my ass drops down.

Also says i hold the bar on my neck instead of my rear lats. But thats another story.

So is it really a big deal? ive been squatting since 08 and have made good progress. I dont see it as physically possible to drop my ass straight down without knees moving fwd slightly.

Even with no weight on the bar, my form seems to involve the knees moving fwd.

Any thoughts or ideas? I tried it barefoot, same knee involvement.

I tried rotating elbows forward as im going down (this was his advice) Still claims im "doing it all wrong."

I have no knee pain whatsoever and ive made good solid gains in the past couple of years.
Click to expand...

you're probably "long torsoed" and can't help leaning forward to get below parallel......try using a 2x4 under your heals.....it works for me
 
I have the above mentioned issue of being long torsoed. I had to learn how to put all wight onmy heels. I also widened my stance a little. The best thing to remember is everyone is different so do what works for you. The best advice on this thread is your own signature. if your making gains do your thing.
 
irish_2003 said:
you're probably "long torsoed" and can't help leaning forward to get below parallel......try using a 2x4 under your heals.....it works for me
Click to expand...


GOOD IDEA i didnt even think of that. i might have to bring my own with me because i doubt my gym has things like that.

very good idea, will try. repped!
 
Last edited:
Mr. Fantastico said:
GOOD IDEA i didnt even think of that. i might have to bring my own with me because i doubt my gym has things like that.

very good idea, will try. repped!
Click to expand...

you can use 10lb plates also just have to make sure they are lined up properly
 
I just thought of this, but a lot of taller guys or longer torso body types do a goodmorning squat, Dave Tate actually recommends these in his basic westside routine. My buddy who played oline on my team in college wound up doing this just out of necessity, then when I asked him why he was doing goodmorning squats, he said he didn't know what that was but had always done them that way. Might be something to look into if you do develop any knee pain, but also I would recommend doing some terminal knee extensions, can't hurt.
 
I think the trainer read something somewhere, and took it as gospel.
 
Look bro...if you have been squatting since '08 with good results, no injuries and no pain...tell him to go f**k himself. I have been squatting since freshman football (20 years) and some trainer tried to tell me once that I should be using the Smith Machine for squats b/c I might hurt my back with all the weight I push. I looked at him like I was going to rip his face off, and he went away. Everyone's got their own opinion when it comes to diet, training, AAS etc...bottom line is you gotta do what works best for you.
 
You knees do move forward some but it's best to not go past your toes. Keep your heels on the floor and you should be ok. In fact you should push up through your heels. It will stress the knee more going forward and will take some of the emphasis off the muscle groups you want to hit.


As far as your ass. Here's some good vids with analysis of form. Squat vids BTW everyone things they are an expert and half of them don't have a clue. Some of these responses condemn the ideas of Dr's, trainers and strength professionals because what they heard from their buddy or a someone with a blog says different. You can get your advice from people who's education and profession is to know or from the bodybuilding version of old wives tales. It's up to you. That being said, there are idiots everywhere and no matter where you look you are bound to find bad info.
 
I think that trainer got his certification from bodybuilding.com
 
At 6'2", I've never been able to back squat below my knees. It's bullshit. I would however suggest using front squats for a squat protocol or even Zerchers. I love the Zercher. Only those two exercises are responsible for getting me below my knees and in perfect form. I've managed to build a great set of legs after I took Built's advice on this.
 
MMAWannabe said:
Some of these responses condemn the ideas of Dr's, trainers and strength professionals because what they heard from their buddy or a someone with a blog says different. You can get your advice from people who's education and profession is to know or from the bodybuilding version of old wives tales. It's up to you. That being said, there are idiots everywhere and no matter where you look you are bound to find bad info.
Click to expand...

I agree there is a lot of misguided information out there. Too bad a lot of "professional" personal trainers are not more qualified to do their jobs. Lot of bad info comes directly from these so-called qualified professionals. There are good ones out there, but there are many more that have no real training or knowledge.
 
Does your trainer squat himself, or just repeat what he has been told? I have long legs and a short torso. I could not get into a squat position without my knees going over my toes even without any weight. If your basic form is solid, don't worry about it. I would find another trainer, or someone at your gym that knows what they are doing.
 
just to add 2 cents the simplest answer is that the body will adjust how forward or not that you go by center of gravity and balance.... the only warning I would have with any squat is using your back as in a partial deadlift exclusively for parts of the lift.... i was always told to slowly sink down and focus on allowing my back and legs to work together. If I come up off the bottom lifting more with my legs, I will be in a bent over position forcing me to use too much back. if you think you are going too forward, put a 2 x 4 under your heels. (it helps some people with balance) but does take off some stress off the calves and leg biceps and ass too tho.
 
I have a long torso, so I have to either widen my stance or place 25lb plates under my heals. Years and years of lifting did not change my body mechanics.
 
For tall guys your knees will inevitable go past your toes if your going low enough. (top of your quad parallel to floor, hamstring lower than parallel) I just concentrating on moving my hips first and letting my knees move naturally as I descend. Biggest form thing for me is making sure I drive my legs out as I ascend. When I get to the latter reps with heavier weights my knees tend to want to buckle in and that can cause knee pain if you get in a bad habit. It def allows me to push out a few more reps though, kind of like swinging the weight towards the end of a set of curls.
 
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