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Good article about soldiers experience in Iraq
- Thread starter BigDyl
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Oh no, they're treating some of the Muslims prisoners like shit.
The Muslims torture and behead their prisoners. You know, our guys.
Cry me a fucking river.
The Muslims torture and behead their prisoners. You know, our guys.
Cry me a fucking river.
When it comes to prisoners I really don't care about how they are treated domestic or overseas.
I didn't bother to read the garbage he linked to but I can guess what it is about. It speaks volumes about him that the treatment of terrorists would be more of a concern than the beheadings of innocent hostages by the very people he cries for.
They also drive cars loaded with explosives into crowds of their own people, leave booby traps on the side of the road to get either our men or theirs it doesn't matter who's next down the road, they fly planes into buildings and a lot of other stupid stuff. Should we stoop to that level too? Maybe cluster bomb a whole section of a US city because a couple Muslim Mosques are there. Why live down to the image our enemies made of us, why not make an attempt to live above their expectations. Proving them wrong would be one of my strategies....
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Do you not think you should read it before passing judgement on someone's character?
I've already seen plenty: More than I ever wanted to see.
It looks like nobody read it. Way to go. I know you pride yourself on not reading. 
In any case, he did say that the prisoners for the most part are rounded up from houses in raids. So I doubt alot of these peoples are insurgents or terrorists. Most are civilians, and he said alot of the soldiers "love to fuck with people."
I know there are people, probably like brogers, that have the "like to hurt people" mentality. I don't understand it myself, but I know alot of guys go into the police force or army so they can do it legally. And no, I'm not passing judgement on everyone, as this article specifically pointed out that this soldiers is a good guy, with morals and feelings.
Unfortunately when you torture innocent people, you run into the problem of people worldwide finding it acceptible to do it to our POW's. It's cyclical.
What a tangled web we weave...
In any case, he did say that the prisoners for the most part are rounded up from houses in raids. So I doubt alot of these peoples are insurgents or terrorists. Most are civilians, and he said alot of the soldiers "love to fuck with people."
I know there are people, probably like brogers, that have the "like to hurt people" mentality. I don't understand it myself, but I know alot of guys go into the police force or army so they can do it legally. And no, I'm not passing judgement on everyone, as this article specifically pointed out that this soldiers is a good guy, with morals and feelings.
Unfortunately when you torture innocent people, you run into the problem of people worldwide finding it acceptible to do it to our POW's. It's cyclical.
What a tangled web we weave...
Ok, so DOMS... just a small hypocracy I've noticed with your logic...
What the fuck do you care if Saddam did this to people if we do the same thing? What's the fucking difference bro?
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What a load of fucking bullshit!
I'm not talking about having our troops killing innocent people. I'm talking about treating our prisoners like they treat theirs.
This isn't a fucking game. This isn't a fucking schoolyard. Grow the fuck up.
Nice non-use of logic.
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Because, dumb ass, I'm not talking about pulling civilians from their homes and killing them. I'm talking about showing that Muslim terrorist piece of shits that they'll get what they give.
You've spent more time bitching about how we treat Muslims terrorists than you do about how they treat their enemies, and civilians!
And that speaks volumes.
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Are you kidding? Our troops are supposed to be worse because we've taken humiliating pictures of them.
What a bunch of dumb ass motherfuckers. I'd love to send them over their to live for a few years. That'd shut those bitches up.
You mean, you don't think humiliating prisoners is worse then cutting their head off slowly with a knife as they scream in pain?
Islam is a plague, so are the liberals who equate them with us. It is honestly baffling to hear people constantly say "we're killing iraqis, we're the terrorists!" Do these morons honestly think it's the US who's setting bombs off in markets and strapping remote bombs to the mentally handicapped? The soldiers lives are on the line everyday trying to secure that place and bring peace and morons want to say that they are doing the same shit Saddam was doing?
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Yes, I think those morons do.
They don't like the war, so, instead of just saying so, they have to build up the US into terrorists and portray the terrorists as misunderstood.
Personally, I think we should hand those fucktards over to the terrorists. I'm sure the end result will be tea and crumpets.
Isn't the whole reason we're there to "promote democracy"? When I was in the Navy we were drilled on The articles of the Geneva Convention which I understood a person was either a soldier and should be treated as a prisoner of war or a civilian. If we want to instill in Iraq and Afghanistan the virtues of Democracy we shouldn't go in and act like dictators instead we should be leading by example. What kind of logic is there in saying "Hey we want you people to take on our form of governance which is based on strict adherence to rules, oh by the way don't pay no attention to the fact that we are right now bending the rules." Everyone tries to say this war is different than any other war we've been in but I'm sorry, we had the Japanese abusing our POWs in WWII, Koreans in the 50's and jesus the Vietnamese whipped our asses with their guerrilla tactics in those jungles, they would use crude booby traps, butcher our soldiers, walk up to our soldiers and blow themselves and the soldiers up with grenades. They hid in plain site as villagers, sometimes whole villages were undercover VC base camps....So tell me why this war is any different than wars before and why we get to toss the rules out on this one? Sorry but theirs nothing logical about war thats why we helped draw up the Geneva rules to begin with....What a load of fucking bullshit!
I'm not talking about having our troops killing innocent people. I'm talking about treating our prisoners like they treat theirs.
This isn't a fucking game. This isn't a fucking schoolyard. Grow the fuck up.
Nice non-use of logic.
There's no difference with previous wars. In Vietnam entire villages were destroyed and civilians killed because the enemy were counting on us sparing their undercover bases. Terrorists hide in mosque and schools thinking the same. Mercy is something that our enemy will not share but WILL take advantage of. Geneva rules only works when you are dealing with an enemy that respect them.
Off-topic, but you realize we never lost a single battle in Vietnam?
Ho Chi Minh said "You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it." The US media lost that war, without the US military losing a single battle. They are trying to repeat history now. Snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Why? I don't know.
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kiko beat me to it. When it comes to war, you can't play the nice guy.
The Geneva Convention only comes close to working when the combatants are first-world countries.
Bingo.
The people were capturing do not wear uniforms, do not represent any state. They are all terrorists, by definition. They do not deserve the honorable treatment of a soldier. They are not soldiers, they are murderers.
We are spending more money per meal for a terrorist at Guantanamo than we are on Pvt. John Doe in the US Army in Iraq (which makes me sick). The terrorist manuals we've picked up in Iraq instruct them to claim that they are being tortured, as to take advantage of the media and of Useful Idiots like BigDyl and co.
So that must be why it's so easy in a democracy to prove someone's guilt or innocence. You simply round them up, throw them in jail, and the fact they are in jail confirms their guilt.
In the article the guy said most people were swept up in house raids. Do you really think every person is going to be guilty? No, it's a massive rounding up of people, and you don't know who is what, so you torture everyone. Pretty fucked up.
It looks like you're trying to say I agree with extremists because I don't constantly condemn them. It goes without saying captain obvious. Saddam was a bad man. Happy?
ROFL@ terrorist manuals. Al Qaeda makes up 1% of the insurgency in Iraq. Their organization is horrible, and anyone with a little bit of money and resources can cause a great deal of trouble if they use guerrila warfare tactics.
I'm sure Muqtada Al-Sadr is aware of useful idiots like yourself as well, don't worry.
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The terrorists are hiding among the civilians. That's why the troops have to go to houses. What? Did you think that the terrorists hang out the Terrorists Elks Lodge 153? You're not really trying to understand what's going on.
What you are doing, is trying to make it sound like everyone that's rounded up in being tortured. Nice try attempting to make shit up.
What the hell does Saddam have to do with my post? I didn't even elude to him. What makes you liberals so defective that every time you get corned in your ranting, that you start talking about shit that has nothing to do with the current topic? Is it some sort of mental neutering?
War is hell...its hard to preserve uniform ethics dyl.
I'm not saying what we are doing over there is right or wrong, but if you are going to attack our tactics you should supply the thread with a better alternative IMO.
It's not so much whether they deserve it or not, because I believe they do. It's a question of what is right and wrong and how we should be acting. The United States used to be the moral beacon of the world; that's not the case anymore. It should also go without saying that it is also against the law, both in the United States and internationally.
The "terrorists" are also, apparently, hiding within our own trained Iraqi military and police - but, of course, this isn't a civil war.
James Hider in Baghdad
Abu Iman barely flinched when the Iraqi Government ordered his unit of special police to move against al-Mahdi Army fighters in Basra.
His response, while swift, was not what British and US military trainers who have spent the past five years schooling the Iraqi security forces would have hoped for. He and 15 of his comrades took off their uniforms, kept their government-issued rifles and went over to the other side without a second thought.
Such turncoats are the thread that could unravel the British Army’s policy in southern Iraq. The military hoped that local forces would be able to combat extremists and allow the Army to withdraw gradually from the battle-scarred and untamed oil city that has fallen under the sway of Islamic fundamentalists, oil smugglers and petty tribal warlords. But if the British taught the police to shoot straight, they failed to instil a sense of unwavering loyalty to the State.
“We know the outcome of the fighting in advance because we already defeated the British in the streets of Basra and forced them to withdraw to their base,” Abu Iman told The Times.
“If we go back a bit, everyone remembers the fight with the US in Najaf and the damage and defeat we inflicted on them. Do you think the Iraqi Army is better than those armies? We are right and the Government is wrong. [Nouri al] Maliki [the Iraqi Prime Minister] is driving his Government into the ground.”
The reason for his apparent switch of sides was simple: the 36-year-old was already a member of the al-Mahdi Army which, like other militias, has massively infiltrated the British-trained police force in the southern oil city. He claimed that hundreds of others from the 16,000-strong force have also defected to the rebels’ ranks.Abu Iman joined the new Iraqi police force after the invasion, joining the Mugawil, a special police unit infamous for brutality, kidnapping and sectarian murders.
“We already heard two weeks ago that we were going to attack the Mahdi Army, so we were ready,” he said. “I decided to take off my uniform and join my brothers and friends in the Mahdi Army. All these years, we were like a scream in the face of the dictator and the occupation.” He said: “I joined the police because I believed we have to protect Basra and save it with our own hands. You can see we were the first fighters to take on Sadd-am and his regime, the best example being the Shabaniya uprising.
Abu Iman said that the fighting raging in Basra yesterday was intense because the al-Mahdi Army was operating on its own turf. He was confident that the Shia militia would prevail because its cause was just.
“The Iraqi Army is already defeated from within. They come to Basra with fear in their hearts, knowing they have to fight their brothers, the sons of Iraq, because of an order from Bush and his friends in the Iraq Government. For this reason, all of the battles are going in the Mahdi Army’s favour.”
Iraqi police in Basra shed their uniforms, kept their rifles and switched sides - Times Online
James Hider in Baghdad
Abu Iman barely flinched when the Iraqi Government ordered his unit of special police to move against al-Mahdi Army fighters in Basra.
His response, while swift, was not what British and US military trainers who have spent the past five years schooling the Iraqi security forces would have hoped for. He and 15 of his comrades took off their uniforms, kept their government-issued rifles and went over to the other side without a second thought.
Such turncoats are the thread that could unravel the British Army’s policy in southern Iraq. The military hoped that local forces would be able to combat extremists and allow the Army to withdraw gradually from the battle-scarred and untamed oil city that has fallen under the sway of Islamic fundamentalists, oil smugglers and petty tribal warlords. But if the British taught the police to shoot straight, they failed to instil a sense of unwavering loyalty to the State.
“We know the outcome of the fighting in advance because we already defeated the British in the streets of Basra and forced them to withdraw to their base,” Abu Iman told The Times.
“If we go back a bit, everyone remembers the fight with the US in Najaf and the damage and defeat we inflicted on them. Do you think the Iraqi Army is better than those armies? We are right and the Government is wrong. [Nouri al] Maliki [the Iraqi Prime Minister] is driving his Government into the ground.”
The reason for his apparent switch of sides was simple: the 36-year-old was already a member of the al-Mahdi Army which, like other militias, has massively infiltrated the British-trained police force in the southern oil city. He claimed that hundreds of others from the 16,000-strong force have also defected to the rebels’ ranks.Abu Iman joined the new Iraqi police force after the invasion, joining the Mugawil, a special police unit infamous for brutality, kidnapping and sectarian murders.
“We already heard two weeks ago that we were going to attack the Mahdi Army, so we were ready,” he said. “I decided to take off my uniform and join my brothers and friends in the Mahdi Army. All these years, we were like a scream in the face of the dictator and the occupation.” He said: “I joined the police because I believed we have to protect Basra and save it with our own hands. You can see we were the first fighters to take on Sadd-am and his regime, the best example being the Shabaniya uprising.
Abu Iman said that the fighting raging in Basra yesterday was intense because the al-Mahdi Army was operating on its own turf. He was confident that the Shia militia would prevail because its cause was just.
“The Iraqi Army is already defeated from within. They come to Basra with fear in their hearts, knowing they have to fight their brothers, the sons of Iraq, because of an order from Bush and his friends in the Iraq Government. For this reason, all of the battles are going in the Mahdi Army’s favour.”
Iraqi police in Basra shed their uniforms, kept their rifles and switched sides - Times Online
That's the other issue that I've neglected to bring up. At what point is one considered a terrorist, and at what point is one considered an enemy soldier? That is an important distinction to make, and I don't feel that we as a country have done that at all. Many of the people fighting us are likely fighting us because we invaded their country, not because they held previous malice towards us.
There's no morality in war. War involves human beings killing other human beings until one side surrenders. Morality is suspended.
Sounds similar to British troops in the late 1700's in America..... Wasn't that reason enough for our forefathers to rise up and become revolutionaries? Didn't the british get pissed off at us because not all of our soldiers wore distinguishable uniforms, nor did they line up in columns and fight how the British thought was fair. As well as the war of 1812 when again some of our soldiers were a ragtag bunch who hid in trees and used sniper tactics.
I think the best way to counter Insurgency is to win over the majority of a population, make them turn against the insurgents amongst them. By mistreating anyone caught in the net of counter-insurgency missions now being used by our soldiers we end up pissing off more and more Iraqis. Not everyone we are fighting over there are Al-qaida, Baathist nor mujahadeen, many are just freedom fighters trying to get us the hell out so the non freedom fighters will stop killing anyone caught in the crossfire,,,
