Mormons face flak for backing Prop. 8

[Pirate!]

You just don't really see many Mormans in NYC.

That's because they look just like everyone else. Only the missionaries standout.

The vast majority of Black LDS I know are from Africa or first generation African-American.

Premier, DOMS, bio-chem and I spent much of our lives involved to a degree with LDS society/beliefs. We are familiar with the beliefs and what lies at the heart of the culture.

Why someone would listen to hate speech bread of ignorance and disregard those who were raised in or around the LDS is beyond comprehension. Who do you think provides massive relief efforts when disasters happend? You are right that much goes on behind the scenes. Great acts of service. It may involve two people or two-hundred thousand. I've seen marvelous works of charity and goodwill touch the lives of many because of the strong faith of many LDS.

The prop 8 issue was a challange for many. In the end, the people of California made their choice, and "Mormons" were a minority of the voters. The liberal idea that everyone who votes "conservative" on "moral" issues must be brainwashed is a terrible insult to the American people.

 

[bio-chem]

I am on no witch hunt.

I have watched the Mormon Theology videos, just for kicks.

There are many beliefs they have they won't tell you. Pirate gave a version - no doubt published by LDS.

Mormonism has an ugly history, and the Mormon church and edited and deleted aspects of Mormon history and Mormon beliefs that are embarrassing and no popular.

Polygamy is just one example. Joseph Smith ("the prophet") was caught by his wife having an affair.

Then miraculously, gold told him he could have multiple wives.

When the Utah statehood was being discussed in Washington DC in Cogress - voila - Polygmy was axed from Mormon theology.

Mormonism is a sham and a farce.

Mormon theology video's? such as? when it's produced by another sect of Christianity I wouldn't consider it a Mormon theology video. lol.

there are plenty of LDS beliefs that are unpopular. then again when has faith in God ever been popular? there is nothing in the LDS church that is hidden. ask a question about any LDS doctrine and I'm sure you will get a straight answer.

 

[Big Smoothy]

there are plenty of LDS beliefs that are unpopular. then again when has faith in God ever been popular?

Belief on 1 god or multiple gods has always been popular: from the Egyptian gods (Orisis & Ra), to the animistic, Zoroastrians, Greeks, Romans, and Constantine, who converted to Christianity.

Then Islam, as well as Hinduism and Judaism.

I'd say belief a mono-theistic god, or group of gods, has always been popular.

The gods just change.

there is nothing in the LDS church that is hidden.

The history and tenets of the Mormon religion, as young as it is, have been edited, changed, and erased, by the Mormon Church.

Some documents are held in secret in the Vault in Salt Lake City.

 

[bio-chem]

Belief on 1 god or multiple gods has always been popular: from the Egyptian gods (Orisis & Ra), to the animistic, Zoroastrians, Greeks, Romans, and Constantine, who converted to Christianity.

Then Islam, as well as Hinduism and Judaism.

I'd say belief a mono-theistic god, or group of gods, has always been popular.

The gods just change.


The history and tenets of the Mormon religion, as young as it is, have been edited, changed, and erased, by the Mormon Church.

Some documents are held in secret in the Vault in Salt Lake City.

judaism, yup thats never been persecuted. not to mention any of the other religions you brought up.

when it comes to persecuted churches right here in the United States the LDS church has to go right up at the top. In a poll before the last election a mormon was less likely than a muslim to be voted for president of the US.

and again I make the offer. any part of the history, tenets, or secret documents you wish to talk about I would be more than happy to discuss.

 

[Big Smoothy]

judaism, yup thats never been persecuted. not to mention any of the other religions you brought up.

I never said Jews were not persecuted. My post was in response to your statement of god/religion being popular.

when it comes to persecuted churches right here in the United States the LDS church has to go right up at the top. In a poll before the last election a mormon was less likely than a muslim to be voted for president of the US.

The people that would never vote for a Mormon - according to extensive polling data - are Christians. Evangelical Christians, in particular.

Christians in general consider Mormonism to be heresy for several reasons.

 

[bio-chem]

I never said Jews were not persecuted. My post was in response to your statement of god/religion being popular.



The people that would never vote for a Mormon - according to extensive polling data - are Christians. Evangelical Christians, in particular.

Christians in general consider Mormonism to be heresy for several reasons.

persecution is a pretty good indication of a lack of popularity in my opinion.

Would you consider yourself an evangelical Christian then? It's hardly just the evangelicals that persecute the LDS faith. Persecution of the LDS faith comes from all sides.

 

[Big Smoothy]

persecution is a pretty good indication of a lack of popularity in my opinion.

The persecution of Jews is not because of "working god" being unpopular.

It was because they worshipped a different god.

Spanish inquisition, Progroms, etc.

Would you consider yourself an evangelical Christian then?

That's a rhetorical question, but I'll answer it. I am not a follower nor member of any organized religion.

It's hardly just the evangelicals that persecute the LDS faith. Persecution of the LDS faith comes from all sides.

Persecution does not = voting.

We're talking about: voting.

 

[maniclion]

We all become Rasta and smoke some paka, so sticky the sunlight itself sticks.....

YouTube Video

Or we can all be funkadelic too...

YouTube Video

 

[DOMS]

Why someone would listen to hate speech bread of ignorance and disregard those who were raised in or around the LDS is beyond comprehension. Who do you think provides massive relief efforts when disasters happend? You are right that much goes on behind the scenes. Great acts of service. It may involve two people or two-hundred thousand. I've seen marvelous works of charity and goodwill touch the lives of many because of the strong faith of many LDS.

That's why I ended up liking Mormons. They don't just talk about serving others, they actually do it. And they don't run to the nearest television camera and talk about how great they are because of it. They do the work and then they go home.

It's only because I asked that I found out that they were the first one into the Soviet Russia when it collapsed and people were without the basic necessities.

 

[bio-chem]

The persecution of Jews is not because of "working god" being unpopular.

It was because they worshipped a different god.

Spanish inquisition, Progroms, etc.



That's a rhetorical question, but I'll answer it. I am not a follower nor member of any organized religion.



Persecution does not = voting.

We're talking about: voting.

these posts right here are why people don't like you here at IM. you can't seem to follow a line of reasoning to the end. I think you confuse even yourself.

 

[Big Smoothy]

That's why I ended up liking Mormons. They don't just talk about serving others, they actually do it. And they don't run to the nearest television camera and talk about how great they are because of it. They do the work and then they go home.

It's only because I asked that I found out that they were the first one into the Soviet Russia when it collapsed and people were without the basic necessities.

Helping people is noble. I highly respect it.

But why do Mormons go abroad to "help" people.

To spread their ideology - and grow their church.

Growth = power.

 

[Big Smoothy]

these posts right here are why people don't like you here at IM. you can't seem to follow a line of reasoning to the end. I think you confuse even yourself.

I respect your opinion,

But your thinking is off-base.

The topic of HIS post was, "worshipping god or gods being unpopular."

Then it was voting for Mormons.

Then, he added, "persecution."

Persecution does not = voting.

Big difference. Worthy of 2 separate threads, entirely.

 

[bandaidwoman]

You know what is uncanny is the similarity between mormonism and islam.

Both books ( quaran and the book of mormons) essentially written by one author in a short period of time, I think mohammed took 20 years to write the quaran ( vs the old testament and new testament which were written over centuries with multiple authors) . Both were visited by an angel, for mohammed it was gabriel for joseph smith another angel whose name escapes me and helps him write the book of mormon by finding some wierd gold tablets.Both are considered prophets, both share some polygomous aspects.

Just looking as an athiest outsider

I have never read the book of mormons but joseph smith being a son of migrant laborers may have produced an utterly spectacular piece of literary work which defied his background and so I can see why people felt god spoke through him. It's like reading the first half of the quaran ( which I read in Malay) unbelievable literary beauty until you get to the second half with all the crappy minutae of laws. No wonder people thought god spoke through him. SImilar to the astoundingly beautiful "laments" when Isiah , Jerimiah, etc were "visited" by God in the Old Testament. Of course I read the latter in Malay as well. I think to read in the original arabic or hebrew is supposed to be even more spectacular.

 

[bandaidwoman]

whats interesting is denmark which has had legal gay marriages for a long long time the gays have 1/5 the divorce rate of heterosexuals and when it was legalized the birth rates went up and rates of heterosexual marriages went up as well.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199705/lessons-gay-marriage

http://www.slate.com/id/2100884/

marriage has always been an economic or poltical union. In this day and age where health insurance is assured among married spouses, adoption legalities favor a dual household, medical decision making falls on the spouse, inheritance rules are easier and cleaner between married spouses, it makes sense that gays want these same economic advantages as the heterosexuals.

 

[GearsMcGilf]

Seriously, does anyone really care where the members of a sick sex cult, such as the mormon church, stand on this issue?

 

[Dark Geared God]

The voters spoke..nuff said....

 

[DOMS]

Seriously, does anyone really care where the members of a sick sex cult, such as the mormon church, stand on this issue?

You mean a group of people that don't even allow for sex outside of marriage and that will kick you out of their church if you cheat on your spouse?

About this: you know jack.

 

[bio-chem]

Seriously, does anyone really care where the members of a sick sex cult, such as the mormon church, stand on this issue?

wait, why the hell do I believe in waiting till marriage if this is a sex cult?

I'm not getting any damn it

 

[KelJu]

wait, why the hell do I believe in waiting till marriage if this is a sex cult?

I'm not getting any damn it

LDS took a sad turn when the Army busted in on Utah, and made them stop doing it.


I want to ask a serious question, and no matter what you reply with, I swear I want make fun of or be a prick about it.

Do you believe that John Smith instituted polygamy, and if you believe he did, why did the LDS change their teachings only after faced with military occupation?

 

[DOMS]

Do you believe that John Smith instituted polygamy, and if you believe he did, why did the LDS change their teachings only after faced with military occupation?

Ha! I asked a member about this when I lived in Salt Lake.

She said that he instituted it because it was the only feasible way to take care of the women. A lot of the men had been killed.

It's also not what I thought. I thought it was a guy shaking up with a bunch of chicks. It's turns out that's not the case. If a guy had more than one wife, he had to provide a separate house for each.

And they stopped it because they felt that they had to do so to live the law of the land. It's like Pirate posted: they believe in following the law.

That's what she told me, anyway.

 

[DOMS]

wait, why the hell do I believe in waiting till marriage if this is a sex cult?

I'm not getting any damn it

Not only that, but they won't even let their kids date until they're 16.

Besides, if it was a freaky sex cult, I'd be a card carrying member.

 

[KelJu]

Ha! I asked a member about this when I lived in Salt Lake.

She said that he instituted it because it was the only feasible way to take care of the women. A lot of the men had been killed.

It's also not what I thought. I thought it was a guy shaking up with a bunch of chicks. It's turns out that's not the case. If a guy had more than one wife, he had to provide a separate house for each.

And they stopped it because they felt that they had to do so to live the law of the land. It's like Pirate posted: they believe in following the law.

That's what she told me, anyway.

I would have told her to her face that her explanation reeks of bullshit!

 

[Big Smoothy]

You know what is uncanny is the similarity between mormonism and islam.

"Religions" often borrow and even outright steal concepts.

The Epic of Gilgamesh was written 3,000 years ago and concept (Great Flood) are in the Christian Old Testatment. Zoroastrianism on Dec. 25th.

Both were visited by an angel, for mohammed it was gabriel for joseph smith another angel whose name escapes me and helps him write the book of mormon

The Mormon angel is Moroni.

This angel is on the top of almost all Mormon Temples.


Good point, Bandaidwoman.

 

[Big Smoothy]

I would have told her to her face that her explanation reeks of bullshit!

That explanation isn't the same as others.

Josesph Smith was caught by his wife having an affair. He then said that he was talking with god, and god told him, to paraphrase 'to spread his seed' and he came up with the Mormon doctrine of having multiple wives.

 

[DOMS]

I would have told her to her face that her explanation reeks of bullshit!

I may have it wrong.

But how is that bullshit?

 

[Big Smoothy]

I may have it wrong.

But how is that bullshit?

Because there are other historical explanations.

Members often give the "official church" line. Common with other religions. But often, it's PR.

 

[GearsMcGilf]

You mean a group of people that don't even allow for sex outside of marriage and that will kick you out of their church if you cheat on your spouse?

About this: you know jack.

Sorry if you're a mormon and were offended. But, I was referring to polygamy. I am aware that sex with a 14 year old girl, who is not one of your wives, is against the rules. But, whoever started this "religion" obviously had his own reasons for making the rules as they are.

 

[DOMS]

Sorry if you're a mormon and were offended. But, I was referring to polygamy. I am aware that sex with a 14 year old girl, who is not one of your wives, is against the rules. But, whoever started this "religion" obviously had his own reasons for making the rules as they are.

I'm not, but really, who would want more than just one wife? Seriously...

My point is that the Mormons that I've met are about as far from "sex cult" as you can get.

You can't date until you're 16.
You can't have sex outside of marriage.
You can't have a three-way.

Those sorts of things.

 

[Big Smoothy]

But, whoever started this "religion" obviously had his own reasons for making the rules as they are.

His name was Joseph Smith.

He was from upstate New York, and scammed people by offering a service to find water for property owne using willow sticks.

A couple of people in his home town made metal symbols from plates, and then buried them. They then dug them out had Joseph Smith come and see them. Smith then "interpreted" the plates.

These guys played a joke on him, and he proved himself to be a fraud.

There are other incidences about Joseph Smith that are locked up in the vault of Salt Lake.

The Salamander Letter

And documents about a conviction in New York state courts for fraud.

Smith died in a shoot-out.

 

[bio-chem]

I want to ask a serious question, and no matter what you reply with, I swear I want make fun of or be a prick about it.

I would have told her to her face that her explanation reeks of bullshit!