anybody else having an overly thermic experience from high protein intake?

[Jenny]

thank's for giving me a great laugh on a Monday morning I'm sorry determination, but you are too funny
The reason why people are talking about portion sizes in books is because it's the EASY way to regulate your food intake if you don't want to count calories and macros. This is prefered for beginners, not the other way around Do you know what macros are? Macronutrients, where you calculate the percentages of protein, carbs and fat What matters to your body is the cals it gets, not how much it is on your plate or how full you get. Some foods will make you feel more full than others without adding calories, since they're not calorie dense. You can actually burn more fat and raise your metabolic rate from foods that are harder to digest, since the body has to work harder to benefit from the nutrients. In Jodi's example the shake and carbs won't be hard for the body to digest, but the whole food meal will.
So, don't worry about how full you get from a meal, find out what it contains and how many cals you're getting from it. www.fitday.com is a good place to get your macros and cals figured out

Good luck

 

[Jenny]

Damn, it's ALL over the books. The body for life thing is basically centered around portions only, it doesn't even take into account macro nutrients (which is great for beginners, but it's obviously not the best if you want optimal results)

Chris Aceto, you can google it up, it's online

It's all over Tom Venuto's book as well. He specifically says you can do everything right, but if your portion sizes are TOO big you won't get results. Or course that usually means you're eating too many calories, but he also mentions you should never stuff yourself in one sitting.



uhh...no

there's a difference between a bigger meal that is still small and a meal that is TOO BIG...one that STUFFS you. How have I not made this distinction clear, I don't know.

You even asked about why the portion sizes matter, I explained it and you had absolutely no reply to it. Now you're asking ME to give you direct quotes.

How about you do something for me and just give me a source, I don't want a quote, just anything anywhere that says you can stuff yourself at every sitting and if the macro's are still right you will still lose weight.

I mean, even if the portion size is already the right size, by eating it too fast you could stuff yourself when you normally wouldn't if you took your time with it.

Do this all the time with every meal, and if you're still losing weight...then I'm a moron

I think this is my favorite post
Determination, I understand you are quite new to the board Jodi is our diet guru and she has more knowledge than 10 of us together. She's competed and been in top notch shape and helped others do the same
Trust her on this

 

[Akateros]

I am sensing a certain amount of psychological resistance here. Determination "feels" fat when full, is the problem, I'd wager.

I think Premo might've been on the right track, here. You probably do not have to worry quite so much about keeping ALL your carbs to your first couple meals. Spread 'em out. Leave your last meal carb-free. I'm suspecting you're (honestly) still at a slight deficit anyway, and even if you aren't, if you've hit your maintenance right, you will be quite fine, and less oofy.

 

[P-funk]

Digestive enzymes help me a bit, but aren't a cure-all

what digestive enzymes do you use?

 

[Akateros]

I've tried plain Bromelain, the Udo's brand, and another brand I can't remember (blue and yellow label) which comes in different formulations (protein, fat & carb digestion I think -- obviously, I've got the protein one). The Udo's seemed to work best, but are godawful expensive.

 

[P-funk]

I've tried plain Bromelain, the Udo's brand, and another brand I can't remember (blue and yellow label) which comes in different formulations (protein, fat & carb digestion I think -- obviously, I've got the protein one). The Udo's seemed to work best, but are godawful expensive.

thanks

 

[Akateros]

Oh yeah -- taking probiotics (lactobacillus supps) seems to help as well. I get the plain powder and mix it in my protein shakes. Purchase only from a store that keeps them refrigerated, otherwise you're buying a jar of dead bacteria. (Now that sounds appetizing.)

 

[Jodi]

I think this is my favorite post
Determination, I understand you are quite new to the board Jodi is our diet guru and she has more knowledge than 10 of us together. She's competed and been in top notch shape and helped others do the same
Trust her on this

OMG Jenny, thanks sweetie but I wouldn't go that far. I try to help people as much as I can and learn from my experiences and others but that's the extent of it.

I am sensing a certain amount of psychological resistance here. Determination "feels" fat when full, is the problem, I'd wager.

I think Premo might've been on the right track, here. You probably do not have to worry quite so much about keeping ALL your carbs to your first couple meals. Spread 'em out. Leave your last meal carb-free. I'm suspecting you're (honestly) still at a slight deficit anyway, and even if you aren't, if you've hit your maintenance right, you will be quite fine, and less oofy.

I agree.

oofy

You seem to understand what he was saying better than I did. Then again you are always one of the most level headed person in this threads.

As far as digestive enzymes, make sure you get one that breaksdown all carbs including lactose, fats and proteins. They are expensive but they do help alot.

 

[P-funk]

As far as digestive enzymes, make sure you get one that breaksdown all carbs including lactose, fats and proteins.

Any recomendations sweet thang?

 

[Paynne]

One thing to note is that I am refeeding after a long period of having my calories set too low

You're feeling full because your diet recently changed. When I go from cutting to bulking I feel positively STUFFED on moderate cals until I get used to the diet change. After about 2 weeks I'm ravenously hungry and start moving cals up again.

 

[Jodi]

Any recomendations sweet thang?

Anything for you my dear

NOW Foods makes 2 good ones that are decently priced. They are called Super Enzymes or Plant Enzymes. I haven't tried the Super Enzymes yet but I use the Plant Enzymes.

 

[patbuck]

Why in the world you bother counting veggies? Its really a waste of time to count the carbs from the greens. The only time I'd count veggies is if they were asparagus or eggplant, otherwise I don't even bother and even when I'm in competition dieting I still don't bother counting the veggies.

You don't count the carb from the veggies?? why?
It's too minimal? Is that mean you eat has much has you want all the time?

 

[Jodi]

Well, with celery and cucumber I tend to eat as much as I want. Veggies I don't even measure, I just get a big bowl full and eat em'.

 

[patbuck]

I'm asking that because between my meal sometimes I'm ungry.
And I always wait to get to the meal to eat, but your saying I could eat veggies all the time and it would not affect the out come of my diet event on cutting?

 

[Jodi]

No, I didn't say eat veggies all the time. I don't snack. I mean with your meal there is no reason to count them.

 

[LAM]

most people do not count the carbs from veggies. it just takes way to much of them to have any effect on weight gain or weight loss. they are consumed for the vitamins and minerals not for the carb content.

for example say you eat 3 cups of broccoli a day which is 12 grams of carbs while 1/2 of those carbs are fiber so technically there are only 6 grams of carbs. 6 grams of carbs or 24 calories is not going to have any effect on your diet

 

[Determination]

You're feeling full because your diet recently changed. When I go from cutting to bulking I feel positively STUFFED on moderate cals until I get used to the diet change. After about 2 weeks I'm ravenously hungry and start moving cals up again.

That's exactly what it was and I thought of it once I was done babbling in this thread

Thus realizing I was wrong about the portion size thing, and the only reason they brought it up is so that beginners could pick up the smaller meal thing easier.

That doesn't mean you have to ask me if I know what macro's are , come on, if anything you could blame me of doing too much number crunching (I used to count every single thing, including veggies).

Before destroying my metabolism, I went from 205 to 155 in less than 8 months...I'm still 155 according to this morning's measurements. While I might not be nowhere near as knowledgable as Jodi per se, I still know a little bit. I just got confused on the portion thing.

I've been refeeding for over a week, though...and I'm able to eat much more and truly I don't think I maintain at 2800 anymore, it's definitely higher cause the last couple of days I haven't been as energetic (though I have started doing cardio, and that might have something to do with that). So I guess my metabolism's reving again.

I also just got my digestive enzymes today. I ordered them from bulk nutrition. Now's Super Enzymes. I had one cap with my 5pm meal, I'll let you guys know how they work since there are others that have similar problems.

I've read killing your thyroid also causes digestive problems, though...and while my bowel movements have been better since I've been refeeding, things still don't feel quite right, and they never truly have ever since I started eating 6 meals/day.

And just for you Jodi, my last meal was a stacked plate of food...macro's were right but I still got pretty full from the meal. Not stuffed, though cause my stomach kinda stretched back to normal now. And I enjoyed the hell out of it

 

[Determination]

for example say you eat 3 cups of broccoli a day which is 12 grams of carbs while 1/2 of those carbs are fiber so technically there are only 6 grams of carbs. 6 grams of carbs or 24 calories is not going to have any effect on your diet

aren't the calories burned in digestion anyway? And in some cases like romaine lettuce, the calories burned to digest it are actually more than it packs?

If you eat plenty of veggies, let's say 300-400 cals worth, you might actually be getting a lot less calories than you think you are at the end of the day (that of course relative to how many calories you're eating/day)

broccoli and asparagus do pack some protein, though

 

[Premo55]

Could you detail what kind of diet you were on that destroyed your thyroid and caused you to lose weight so rapidly? Also, if you were losing too fast and feeling like crap, why on earth did you continue for 8 months?

Peace.

 

[Determination]

lol no, I was fine for say...the first...6. In fact, I lost 35 pounds before I even started eating 6 times a day and counting calories, etc. I've always had a pretty fast metabolism...last summer I was in arizona and my brother bought a bowflex and I just got into doing that and I ate what I would now consider utter crap, sugary cereals, processed chicken, drinking alcohol...I hadn't even noticed I had lost weight until my brother pointed it out. I got on the scale and couldn't believe it.

I was fine then, I didn't have any digestion problems, at least. The reasons why I started the whole eating 6 times a day and working out all the time thing are many and I won't go into that, but I haven't been doing it for that long...3 month tops

I started that at 165...I lost 10 pounds in a month and half, then fat loss stopped, and then I lowered cals even more even though that goes against everything I had read. Then instead of eating more I tried going low carb while lowering calories even more, making things worse. Bye Bye thyroid, peace out metabolism. I experimented for a little less than a month and half until I figured out what i was doing and got back on track.

Granted it took me awfuly fucking long to figure out I just wasn't eating enough. All I did was go back to the books that got me into things in the first place.

What's cool is that after all of this, while I'm still the same weight I got stuck at...I am noticeably leaner and certain muscles have grown.

So I learned the hard way, even though I didn't need to since I had all the answers right in front of me...but hey you live and you learn

Edit: oh also, now I've figured out that my problem once I started eating 6 times a day and counting calories was that I very much underestimated my activity levels. I was ridiculously active at the time, my job beat up my body pretty good, let alone the workouts...I had multiplied my BMR by 1.55...when I could have easily gone to 1.9, at the very least 1.7...dropping calories further just killed it