Girl wants help in transformation

[Juiced_Monkey]

i wouldnt advise a cylce to anyone under 21.. even var..hormone levels are not stable enough yet imo

This is what I believe too.

 

[Juiced_Monkey]

well anavar is mild enough to give to children, so needless to say im not too concerned about it.

And clen, if used at dosages that exceed safe amounts can be damaging yes, but then again..everything is bad for you in unsafe amounts.

I don't personally like clen, my wife tried it but she was getting massive headaches.. I know clen can be very effective, I guess the key here is to monitor her for any sides.

 

[bigrnmedic]

I'd agree with some of the brothers in here and recommend that diet and training start first and wait a while before screwing with any kind of gear. We are always telling the young guys in here to stay off the shie until they are at least in their 20's. I would say the same for women. Hormone levels are so unpredictable at that young age. She may or may not have a problem with Clen, who knows. But I would definitely avoid any AAS in that girl for at least a year or 2. I have seen some amazing transformations in young women lately that have been all natural and just start busting their ass to get what they want. You have to put some hard work in first before looking at drugs. I see AAS as a kind of a reward for all the hard work I put in establishing my foundation for a good physique. It should be something that helps kick your body into gear and get past plateaus and past that point where you have done everything that you can do naturally first. I'm not judging, I'm just sayin'.

 

[Standard Donkey]

I'd agree with some of the brothers in here and recommend that diet and training start first and wait a while before screwing with any kind of gear. We are always telling the young guys in here to stay off the shie until they are at least in their 20's. I would say the same for women. Hormone levels are so unpredictable at that young age. She may or may not have a problem with Clen, who knows. But I would definitely avoid any AAS in that girl for at least a year or 2. I have seen some amazing transformations in young women lately that have been all natural and just start busting their ass to get what they want. You have to put some hard work in first before looking at drugs. I see AAS as a kind of a reward for all the hard work I put in establishing my foundation for a good physique. It should be something that helps kick your body into gear and get past plateaus and past that point where you have done everything that you can do naturally first. I'm not judging, I'm just sayin'.

I wouldn't really call what I am planning as "screwing around with gear". It is a very organized setup, including an extremely low dose of the mildest steroid available.

Young men starting to use steroids is totally different, as they will be using many tens, if not hundreds of times what she will be using (of much harsher substances as well).

I admire conservativsm greatly, but it seems the degree expressed by a couple of individuals in this thread (whose opinion I am definitely grateful for, don't get me wrong) is a bit exaggerated. I would think that using birth control would have more of an impact on her hormone levels than 10mg of anavar a day.

 

[squigader]

Honestly, diet and exercise could do it, so why not start with that first? It's a bad habit to start someone on anything before they've been exercising regularly and dieting for at least a month. Do her a favor for her future Standard and start her on that first.

 

[Standard Donkey]

Honestly, diet and exercise could do it, so why not start with that first? It's a bad habit to start someone on anything before they've been exercising regularly and dieting for at least a month. Do her a favor for her future Standard and start her on that first.

it is what i am starting her on

 

[Built]

her appetite isn't the problem.. she is one of those (like most americans) who thinks "if I eat less ill lost weight"..

Little do they know..

Im writing a diet and exercise program for her right now, in addition to providing information about good food choices. This, coupled with the addition of the drugs (whenever naps opens) will give her the results she is looking for I am quite confident.


She isn't wanting to look figure model status, just leaner, and tighter

Standard Donkey, how are you assessing her diet - how many calories is she eating now?

The reason I ask is because a lot of people THINK they aren't eating that much, but they are.

Var won't lean her out like it'll lean out a man. Women get bigger and bulkier on var unless they're dieting HARD. Ask sassy for more on this, she's seen it and so have I. A woman's androgen status is so low, the tiniest addition and we just pack on size - often to their own dismay and the consternation of their well-intentioned, but misguided boyfriend/trainer.

At 5'9", 160 isn't THAT big - but it is a bit juicy and if it's disproportional, I can see the problem. I was 170 at my heaviest and i'm 5'6.5" - THAT put me at about 40% bodyfat and it was ALL ass - I had a 48" ass at that weight.

I'm interested to hear your diet and training plan for her. Mind posting that up? I might be able to help you help get her to where she wants to be a little faster.

 

[Standard Donkey]

Standard Donkey, how are you assessing her diet - how many calories is she eating now?

The reason I ask is because a lot of people THINK they aren't eating that much, but they are.

Var won't lean her out like it'll lean out a man. Women get bigger and bulkier on var unless they're dieting HARD. Ask sassy for more on this, she's seen it and so have I. A woman's androgen status is so low, the tiniest addition and we just pack on size - often to their own dismay and the consternation of their well-intentioned, but misguided boyfriend/trainer.

At 5'9", 160 isn't THAT big - but it is a bit juicy and if it's disproportional, I can see the problem. I was 170 at my heaviest and i'm 5'6.5" - THAT put me at about 40% bodyfat and it was ALL ass - I had a 48" ass at that weight.

I'm interested to hear your diet and training plan for her. Mind posting that up? I might be able to help you help get her to where she wants to be a little faster.

Well, she eats a lot of processed food, and food that would otherwise be avoided by the types of people on these forums.

I happen to have spent entire days with her at a time (Im her ex), so I was able to witness how much she ate, and it really is not that much.. (I ate about the same amount of calories when I weighed 140)

she has more likely than not, crashed her metabolism by eating so little and doing things like skipping breakfast.



You raise an interesting point on the anavar, do you recall what dose were you and sassy running it?

Yes, 160 at 5'9 is not that big, I do not know if she was telling me the truth, I was never able to consult with the scale haha.

As for her diet, I am planning on cleaning it up first, removing all the processed and fast foods...sodas etc. That alone should bring her closer to her goal.

Then I would have her apply basic principles like keeping carbs around training etc..


As for training? I feel that her training program should be slowly segwayed into. I dont want to give her too many lifestyle changes all at once.

I would most likely have her train like I do, but with less volume and weight of course, adding in cardio slowly, perhaps three 20 minute sessions a week of steady state cardio post workout, gradually increasing by 5-10 minutes each session each week.


Something like

half an hour of weights 4-5 days a week (following a basic bodypart split avoiding the more dangerous lifts)

followed by 20 minutes of steady state cardio on lifting days and 30 minutes on non lifting days (gradually increasing)



I would really appreciate any advice or opinions you may have on this, Built. Your insight would truly be an asset here.

 

[Built]

Well, she eats a lot of processed food, and food that would otherwise be avoided by the types of people on these forums.

I happen to have spent entire days with her at a time (Im her ex), so I was able to witness how much she ate, and it really is not that much.. (I ate about the same amount of calories when I weighed 140)

Do you happen to remember how many calories you ate at 140?

she has more likely than not, crashed her metabolism by eating so little and doing things like skipping breakfast.

This might surprise you, but I HIGHLY recommend skipping breakfast. I lost a significant amount of bodyfat (forty+ lbs) about ten years ago and remain sub-20% bodyfat year round - I focus most of my food into the later part of the day and eat only a few large meals daily. I USED to do the usual "six meals" thing, but gave it up over a year ago. I will NEVER go back.

At 160 lbs, this girl has NOT crashed her metabolism. I guarantee it. She's eating too much or she wouldn't weigh 160 lbs. Period.

You raise an interesting point on the anavar, do you recall what dose were you and sassy running it?

I have not run 'var.
Steroids improve "feed efficiency" - an animal husbandry term that means they help the animal gain more weight from the same number of calories.

Var - any anabolic steroid, really - can and will add bulk to ANY woman.

It is an anabolic steroid designed to help women and girls add mass to reverse tissue-wasting. It is not a diet drug. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

Now if you're on a cutter and have a very tight diet, yes, it'll help you lean out by conserving muscle mass and encouraging lipolysis - but at maintenance for a female? She'll gain mass.

An untrained female on anything but a strong deficit and a LOT of physical activity? She'll gain mass.

She might drop some fat, but she'll gain mass and this is not the look she's after.

I respect you tremendously for coming on the board and posing this question, but she's a soft 18 year old girl who just needs to learn how to diet, go for a walk in the AM for half an hour most days of the week, and lift weights three times a week. This will give her more than any drug or supplement right now.

Yes, 160 at 5'9 is not that big, I do not know if she was telling me the truth, I was never able to consult with the scale haha.

As for her diet, I am planning on cleaning it up first, removing all the processed and fast foods...sodas etc. That alone should bring her closer to her goal.

Not without a plan. You need to know what she's eating now. You need to know how many calories, how much protein, carb and fat. You need to know when she is at her hungriest, and when she doesn't mind not eating.

For example, some folks don't mind stopping eating at eight just as long as they eat first thing in the AM. I'm the other way around - I'll skip breakfast and start eating at around eleven if it means I get to eat near bedtime. So I do. It's cals in, cals out. She needs to learn when she can put up with a bit of discomfort, and when it is NOT possible.

Then I would have her apply basic principles like keeping carbs around training etc..

This can be helpful for appetite control to be sure.

I highly recommend eating the carbs before she trains - once she's in very good shape and training hard, carbs after works a charm but until then, they'll just make her hungrier.

For now, target them mostly in the hour before she trains.

A whey shake with no carbs, followed by a solid meal of protein and fat with fibrous veggies like broccoli and salads are great afterward. It'll fill her right up and keep her hunger down for many hours afterward - which is a huge concern for women who train since in women, intense exercise often increases appetite (more than it does for men, who often find appetite DECREASES with intense activity).

As for training? I feel that her training program should be slowly segwayed into. I dont want to give her too many lifestyle changes all at once.

I would most likely have her train like I do, but with less volume and weight of course, adding in cardio slowly, perhaps three 20 minute sessions a week of steady state cardio post workout, gradually increasing by 5-10 minutes each session each week.

Just have her walk half an hour fasted five days out of seven. That's enough cardio for now and it'll actually settle down appetite. Walking's low intensity enough not to trigger hunger, and she's too fat and poorly conditioned to jog. Cycling or elliptical would be other options, but walking - you just step out the door, it's easy to comply.

Something like

half an hour of weights 4-5 days a week (following a basic bodypart split avoiding the more dangerous lifts)

I agree - avoid dangerous lifts. This is prudent advice for anyone. I don't like to see anyone doing dangerous lifts like smith squats or upright rows, or machine-based workouts.

Stick to basic, heavy compounds like below-parallel squats (start with a dumbbell, as goblet squats), deadlifts, bench press, dumbbell rows, lat pulldowns (or better yet, self-assisted chinups) and shoulder press. Read the link in my sig to "homework 1" for images and form vids for these lifts. Keep her rep range low while she's learning form. It's better to do multiple three-rep sets with good form, than three sets of 12 shitty reps of ANY movement.

followed by 20 minutes of steady state cardio on lifting days and 30 minutes on non lifting days (gradually increasing)

Try the AM walk, and another 20-30 minutes after lifting three days a week. In a few months she can escalate the lifting to four days a week, but not until she's squatting at least half her bodyweight with good form.

I would really appreciate any advice or opinions you may have on this, Built. Your insight would truly be an asset here.

Thank you - I appreciate your confidence. Read homework 1 and have her do the fitday homework - I don't care WHAT her food choices are, I just want to see the numbers.

 

[fitter420]

Good read,informative

 

[Fit_Qtie]

Excellent post by Built, I agree with it 100 %

The first thing that needs to be done is knowing how many cals she's really eating, most people think they are not eating enough, but then, are shicked when they start counting calories.

I agree var is not what she should focus on now, she should focus on her diet & a training routine that suits her, before runing a var cycle.

She can reach her fitness goals naturally & effectively.