My battle with being over weight 10/31/11

[Anabolic5150]

Stay consistent, stay motivated, stay positive and you will succeed Monte, you have some good folks in your corner.

 

[Built]

Wow Built; very, very, very long reply to say we mainly agree on things. I can tell you're very excited about your results, congratulations.

It's more like relief.

I definitely agree with your process and reasoning, but keep in mind, what worked for you and for a female, may not necessarily work for another individual or a male.

Why not?

Further, we have 3 main body types and subtypes within. I'm a Meso Endo. I can maintain a low fat body fairly easily (after educating myself), but I cannot gain muscle without gaining significant fat (no matter what), but cutting is not difficult.

Please get a proper hormone panel run.

An Endo is going to have difficulty cutting fat most of the time; this is likely 72Monte's body type. If it is, he should follow the proper protocol. Low carb, high fat and protein is fine if you are disciplined and don't ever fall off the wagon. For an Endo it can be disastrous.

How come? Most of the successful former-fatties I've interacted with have done swimmingly on a low carb diet. It works best for satiety with the obese.

When a beginner finally becomes committed, they need to find success with a simplest formula and then build on it. You have to build a foundation first, figure out what works and then get specific. While I agree that it is simple for you and me, I have friends who are obese, one has gone to fat camp and they just don't succeed long-term. The reason is because they have not made rules and compromises with themselves, they keep a tub of ice cream in the freezer and say to themselves, I have willpower.

See, I think it's because they haven't learned how to eat in a way that keeps them feeling "fed". There's only so long you can be hungry.

Also, exercising off the weight never works in the long-run. I have yet to meet a soul who has exercised off the weight and kept it off for more than a year.

Weight loss is diet.

Maintaining the loss is also diet. Exercise just tells the calories where to go.

You can get cut eating only ground beef and bacon, but you really need to know what you're doing to be successful; this does not come over night, it comes with taking baby steps, learning and then trusting what you've learned is correct. Clearly you trust what works for you.

I've been interacting with current and former fatties for over ten years. I came out of obesity, and the only thing that ever made me feel "fed" was high fat, low carb. Lots of fatties are the same way - take a look at some of the formerly fattest people on this board - juggernaut, jagbender, niki - all have lost upward of 100 lbs and all feel better on low carbs.

You believe spreading meals does not work to regulate insulin and boost metabolism.

Mine is not a "belief". There is simply no evidence to support your assertion.

Meal frequency does not speed up your metabolic rate: Meal frequency and energy balance. [Br J Nutr. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI
And eating LESS frequently - with larger meals and more protein - is in fact better at controlling glycemic control.
Incretin Secretion in Relation to Meal Size and Body Weight in Healthy Subjects and People with Type 1 and Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus
It may also be better for satiety: Food form and portion size affect po... [Obesity (Silver Spring). 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

You and I share reactive hypoglycemia - believe me, I have lived your nightmare. I could not control my appetite because of it, and ended up 40% bodyfat and on metformin by the time I was your age. I was jogging 10k 3x a week on my low-fat, low-GI, no-white-anything diet. I had to stop when I hit 170 lbs - the shin splints and plantar fasciitis got to be unbearable.

You assume the entire population processes sugar the same way, so does your study. I was born Hypoglycaemic and if I don't eat every 3-4 hours, my blood sugar falls; a week of not keeping to a proper schedule and I get the shakes.

Look up research on first-phase insulin response, incretin, and meal size. I had a DEVIL of a time believing it - but the research was sound and my own experience sealed the deal for me. Glycemic control is better with larger meals eaten less frequently, even in type II diabetics.

White potatoes are death for me, sweet potato or yam is much better. Again, I said lean towards low glycemic, it will not hurt and if a person finds they can tolerate the more filling high glycemic carbs, great.

The GI really is an outdated construct. Nobody eats these foods in isolation, and the overall GI of the meal is reflected in this mix. Look at the insulinimic and satiety indeces if you want to investigate more helpful paradigms.

Grains are wonderful foods for most people.

Most Canadians are overweight or obese. How wonderful do you really think whole grains are for most people? The one benefit they have is that they're cheap.

The challenge is most bread is processed which is why people are sensitive. Most people who have wheat allergies can eat sprouted grains.

I'd like some evidence of this. My sister is diagnosed Celiac and has been on disability for the last five years because of it. I have seen nothing to indicate that she will ever be able to tolerate grains - even sprouted ones.

1 slice of squirrelly bread has 6 grams of protein and 5 grams of fibre. I was once like you, I ate no grains. When I discovered sprouted grains, it was like winning the lottery. Low carb is great for losing fat and maintaining, but outside of the gym, you cannot be an athlete on a low carb diet.

This is patently false.

Try skiing for 6 hours on low carb. If you say you can, you are not like most other people.

I can't imagine doing something that feels GOOD for six hours, much less skiing. But I've hiked The Chief on low carb and felt just fine.

So my point is; someone starting out cannot just eliminate an entire food source from their diet, but they can find better alternative

As for my ice cream disease, I know you did not mean to come across as condescending, but apologising for my lack of self control was extremely so. We are human beings and we all have vices and we all indulge, it's about living life. I can have a tub of shitty ice cream in the freezer and never touch it, but if its peanut butter chocolate, made the traditional way, I go nuts. I don't bring it in the home; I take my kids out for it. Once and a while I even get drunk. If you do not indulge in something, then there is something wrong with you. As for discipline, I was born in one of the poorest postal codes, today I live in the richest, you got to do a few things right for that...

How long will my approach work? It's been working for 18 years.

Okay - maybe I misread you. In your intro post, you write that you have adrenal fatigue and that you've recently returned to the gym after a five-year hiatus.

You're 5'8" tall. At 30, you weighed 160 lbs and squatted over 300 lbs for reps. Now 38, you weigh 203 lbs - up 20 lbs since May and carry 20% bodyfat.

Forgive me, but this does not sound like someone who has had his diet working for him for 18 years.

There is a problem with conversation over the internet, it seems we agree on a lot and have already read between the lines in all of our posts, but you cannot assume that other readers, especially those who are just starting out can do the same. Suggesting that someone remove grains completely and fry their chicken in bacon fat is setting them up for failure. Of course I understand ketogenisis and know that you can fry your steak, chicken and fish in lard and get shredded, but most will not get it nor be able to get in any true ketogenic state. Most people who live normal lives and have kids cannot eat 35gm of fibre without removing grains, but you can. The average North American consumes less than 15 grams. I eat 50 gm of fibre every day, it's spread between sprouted grains, veggies, fruit and legumes, it would not be impossible to do with removing grains, but for most people, it would.

Arguing my basic and general points of view is not helpful for people looking for a place to start; it only serves to prove how knowledgeable you are. You diet plan is very easy for you, but it was not the first week or month you started it. Clearly you are excited about what you know. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think your point of view is right for a beginner. BTW, I make my living as a coach; I know what concepts work for newbie???s and which ones will set them up for failure.

I would argue your workout advice, but I cannot, it's simple and logical, just like mine.

And yes, I am Dyslexic, thank god for that.

Cheers

Please have a look at "homework 1" in my sig - it's pretty damned simple, and it has already helped a LOT of people get their diets figured out.

(As an aside, you may wish to reconsider a percentage based approach to your diet. It may be fine for maintenance, but when you cut, your need for protein goes UP, not down - and on a percentage-based diet, by definition protein MUST drop when calories fall.)

 

[vancouver]

You know what, I take it back, you do mean to be condescending. Since you are dyslexic, you know that words can bounce around the page when you read; looks like you only read what bounced.

If you read correctly and processed the info in your scrambly brain, you'll understand I put on 20lbs over 5 years of building 2 businesses and setting up my family for life (4 kids); that's hardly overweight, given I still carried more muscle mass than average. Last year I figured out I had adrenal fatigue, sold a business and decided to trade my bowflex in for a real gym again. In 6 months I put on 20lbs (5 lbs fat), you cannot put on muscle without consuming over maintenance; I could give 2 shits about my waist line while I’m putting on mass. 203 lbs will not put me on the cover of mens fitness, but it's enough for people to take notice. 2 months ago I had a full hormone panel done and I'm below normal for DHEA and Test. I see the endo in 3 weeks. Given that I'm running the test of a 75 year old in the 5th percentile and I put on 15lb of muscle; that tells you I know what the fuck I'm doing.

You climbed the Chief, holly shit; my 6 year old climbed the Chief with me. I hope you at least got the T-shirt.

So extremely condescending...

I'm still the stupid one though; I should have never started an argument with chick.

Good luck 72Monte...

I’m done with this thread.

Cheers,

 

[Built]

Oh dear. You really can't handle a decent argument. That's a damned shame.

When I last hiked the Chief, a little old lady was also hiking her way up. She wasn't RUNNING up mind you, but she made it up. I'm hardly an endurance bunny. I barely do any cardio - but I've made my way up it a few times.

I got a few pix taken on that trail a few years ago - you can see 'em here if you like.
Got Built? » It takes a while…

Best of luck with your physique goals, vancouver.

 

[72Monte]

Today Monday 11/07/11
Atkins all out from 7am until now 5pm 4 carbs so far and a baked chicken dinner coming for supper.


Great day at the gym , Felt nice and strong , didnt mind going. Did chest and triceps and started to mix in some of Builts' Homework 1 exercises. I say started because I still havent found all the spots at the gym to pull them all off and im slowly finding my way around the gym.

 

[72Monte]

Today Tuesday the 8th

Started the day with
3 eggs
3 bacon

Finding myself very light headed but from everything i read that will pass soon.


Chopped wood outside for 2 hours
Then went and did 40 minutes on Elliptical

Starting to feel more and more motivated.

 

[Built]

I'm enjoying reading your discoveries as you work through this process.

 

[Mkpaint]

Good work getting up and going to gym! You will find that at some point if you miss a day you will feel guilty and that's when it has got you hooked. Look forward to hearing more reports of progress

 

[72Monte]

I skipped today do to being sick all day and have stressed and been aggrivated all day i didnt go...I did however do a hard 8 hours of installing fence today so that was good.

 

[72Monte]

I had a great day at the gym today and even though I debated going because I still havent felt well , I went and had a great workout and im really learning good form and things are getting easier and I can feel some strength. So far im down 6lbs as of last night.

 

[jagbender]

He 72 Sorry took so long to get in here and post. I was on vacation!



Built and I go back a long time. She has been a blessing to me. although she did have to kick my butt a few times.

If I can be of any assistance let me know. I'll be stopping by daily.

Keep up the good work. lift within your physical limits but lift heavy and keep reps 6-9 under 6 too heavy. over 9 too light. That is what I shoot for, but is not always the case on certain exercises.

Excel in the exercises that suck! The kings of lifting IMO Deadlifts and Squats.

Do as many exercises with free weights as possible. Built mentioned earlier standing is better for stabilizer muscles.

Eat really good 97% of the time and screw it sometimes. I plan a cheat meal weekly. Heck I ate like a fool for a week on the cruise and gained 17 pounds. Since Saturday @ noon I have lost 11 pounds. Right now I am 6 pounds heavier that I was 10 days ago. not bad.
Can I really gain 17 pounds in 7 days? not really, what I mean is the change in my diet (what I eat on a regular basis) versus eating like a king on a cruise. my protein dropped and my carbs and fat went through the roof.
In order to gain 17 pounds in a week I would have to eat 10700 calories a day. really not possible.
Take your time getting into the groove of your new diet, not "a" diet, "diet" is what you eat most of the time. keep a log on fitday. once you make your custom foods it really gets easy to keep track of your foods. listen to your body.
try to find foods that you like that are healthy. you can probably eat as many green leafy vegtables as you want. cabbage is also filling and high in fiber.
I don't eat much processed foods except protein drinks. a LOT of turkey. and about 6-8 POUNDS of organic spinach a week. The people @ Sam's club know me pretty well when I come in they know I am buying 2-3 boxes of Spinach and a box of Turkey burgers at least twice a week!

There are a bunch of good people here to help you achieve your goals.

 

[72Monte]

He 72 Sorry took so long to get in here and post. I was on vacation!



Built and I go back a long time. She has been a blessing to me. although she did have to kick my butt a few times.

If I can be of any assistance let me know. I'll be stopping by daily.

Keep up the good work. lift within your physical limits but lift heavy and keep reps 6-9 under 6 too heavy. over 9 too light. That is what I shoot for, but is not always the case on certain exercises.

Excel in the exercises that suck! The kings of lifting IMO Deadlifts and Squats.

Do as many exercises with free weights as possible. Built mentioned earlier standing is better for stabilizer muscles.

Eat really good 97% of the time and screw it sometimes. I plan a cheat meal weekly. Heck I ate like a fool for a week on the cruise and gained 17 pounds. Since Saturday @ noon I have lost 11 pounds. Right now I am 6 pounds heavier that I was 10 days ago. not bad.
Can I really gain 17 pounds in 7 days? not really, what I mean is the change in my diet (what I eat on a regular basis) versus eating like a king on a cruise. my protein dropped and my carbs and fat went through the roof.
In order to gain 17 pounds in a week I would have to eat 10700 calories a day. really not possible.
Take your time getting into the groove of your new diet, not "a" diet, "diet" is what you eat most of the time. keep a log on fitday. once you make your custom foods it really gets easy to keep track of your foods. listen to your body.
try to find foods that you like that are healthy. you can probably eat as many green leafy vegtables as you want. cabbage is also filling and high in fiber.
I don't eat much processed foods except protein drinks. a LOT of turkey. and about 6-8 POUNDS of organic spinach a week. The people @ Sam's club know me pretty well when I come in they know I am buying 2-3 boxes of Spinach and a box of Turkey burgers at least twice a week!

There are a bunch of good people here to help you achieve your goals.

Thanks Jeff , Im glad You wrote in because I was under the impression that green leafy veggies were a no no.....I thought they had a lot of carbs ? I love cabbage , I love spinach. Is the same for romain lettuce or ice burg lettuce ? Lunch and dinners Im fine with because I love hamburger , steak , chicken so im always satified. I have been keeping track on fitday and I have to say fitday is huge for me. It really helps me having a good understanding what im eating and how badly I was eating before. Thanks again for Your help.

 

[jagbender]

Depends if you are trying to go into ketosis like on an Atkins Diet. I have gone into ketosis eating 70-80 grams of carbs BUT there were NO refined carbs no bread no pasta no rice ETC.
Some people including myself don't count carbs from GLV's green leafy vegtables.

When I was getting into ketosis @ 80 g of carbs on fitday charts 45% of those carbs was fiber, so net carbs was 45 carbs +-. With the carloic intake and exercise levels I was doing at the time I could easily remain in ketosis @ that level.

If you are doing an "induction" phase of Atkins then avoid the GLV's for a couple of weeks. I consider my diet low carb even on a high day less than 100g total garbs and fiber.

You can look at the charts I post from fitday and in the pie chart there is Carbs and Fiber broken out seperatly.

 

[72Monte]

Couple easy days Yesterday and Today just 40 Minutes cardio each day. No weights. Overall felling much better and getting more motivated as the days go by.

 

[72Monte]

Getting diet down pretty good and feeling good in Gym. Today I did Chest and Triceps 4 sets of chest an 4 sets pf triceps down another 6 lbs for a total of 12 lbs lost so far.

 

[Built]

 

[jagbender]

Getting diet down pretty good and feeling good in Gym. Today I did Chest and Triceps 4 sets of chest an 4 sets pf triceps down another 6 lbs for a total of 12 lbs lost so far.

keep up the good work! Glad to hear you are feeling motivated ane energized!

 

[72Monte]

Tuesday just 40 Minutes of Cardio. Still eating 20 Grams or less of carbs everyday still struggling to stay at 20 or under but Im going to tough it out.

Wednesday:

Great day at Gym getting strength back sooner then I thought. 4 Shoulder exercises and 4 Biceps.....arms starting getting very weak at end of biceps but made it through great.


Overall feeling better and better everyday.

 

[Mkpaint]

20 grams carbs u the man i cant do that under 100 is good for me. i like it at 300 or more.

 

[72Monte]

Great work out today but weird...I have been skipping breakfast each day and hitting the gym early. Todays workout was great I felt strong , had energy but couldnt get the weight up I got up last time. I dont know if its from not eating breakfast or what but i felt fine just couldnt get the same weight up.

Tomorrow I will weigh in. I feel lighter but tahts usually when I dont drop any weight.

Tomorrow , I'll get up and do 40 minutes of cardio and come post my weight.

 

[jagbender]

Tuesday just 40 Minutes of Cardio. Still eating 20 Grams or less of carbs everyday still struggling to stay at 20 or under but Im going to tough it out.

Wednesday:

Great day at Gym getting strength back sooner then I thought. 4 Shoulder exercises and 4 Biceps.....arms starting getting very weak at end of biceps but made it through great.


Overall feeling better and better everyday.

remember that you need to count NET carbs

Carbs-fiber = net carbs.

I am on VLC very low carbs and usually stay under 120 total carbs with about 40 grams fiber so that is about 80 net carbs a day.

Look next to the graph total carbs 100 - 30 fiber so 70g for the day

 

[jagbender]

Great work out today but weird...I have been skipping breakfast each day and hitting the gym early. Todays workout was great I felt strong , had energy but couldnt get the weight up I got up last time. I dont know if its from not eating breakfast or what but i felt fine just couldnt get the same weight up.

Tomorrow I will weigh in. I feel lighter but tahts usually when I dont drop any weight.

Tomorrow , I'll get up and do 40 minutes of cardio and come post my weight.

How long have you been on LOW carbs? Your body may be getting used to running on fats for fuel and converting fat for energy

 

[72Monte]

How long have you been on LOW carbs? Your body may be getting used to running on fats for fuel and converting fat for energy

I've been on low carbs close to three weeks. I cant figure how to post my fitday stats here like You did. This week my carbs have been around 10-12 grams and Ive been doing total carbs not net carbs....My spinach is 3.5 cups so i count 3.5 carbs.


Is it better once my body starts running on fats ?

 

[72Monte]

Down another 4 lbs this week. A little bummed only 4 but I'll take it. I thought I would have had better results because I really stuck to the plan and worked hard. Next week I will try adding more cardio. Down 16 lbs so far.

 

[CowPimp]

Down another 4 lbs this week. A little bummed only 4 but I'll take it. I thought I would have had better results because I really stuck to the plan and worked hard. Next week I will try adding more cardio. Down 16 lbs so far.

4lbs a week is amazing. In fact, if you weighed less, I would say it's too much. The rule of thumb to insure maintenance of muscle mass is no more than 1% of your bodyweight per week. You're exceeding that maximum slightly, but keeping reasonably close. Losing weight too fast can be unhealthy too, keep in mind.

Keep up the good work. Sounds like you're working hard and getting results.

 

[Built]

^This. 72Monte, do you understand why we say this? Do you understand what it means to lose one pound of bodyfat in terms of caloric deficit?

 

[72Monte]

^This. 72Monte, do you understand why we say this? Do you understand what it means to lose one pound of bodyfat in terms of caloric deficit?

Nope , I honestly dont understand it. I just felt i would have a better result. I understand the weight didnt go on over night and certainly wont come off over night. Im honestly not complaining I just really felt like it would have been more of a drop. My clothes feel loser and fit better , my stomach seems smaller and I feel so much better.

 

[72Monte]

Saturday was a cardio day 40 minutes on elliptical.

Sunday , 1st day in 3 weeks I slipped up on the diet and ate a piece of Lasagna and 2 small meatballs and asmall chicken cutlet.

Monday got right back to cardio 40 minutes on elliptical and back on Atkins.

 

[Built]

Nope , I honestly dont understand it. I just felt i would have a better result. I understand the weight didnt go on over night and certainly wont come off over night. Im honestly not complaining I just really felt like it would have been more of a drop. My clothes feel loser and fit better , my stomach seems smaller and I feel so much better.

Most reasonably lean, reasonably active folks maintain on about 15 x bodyweight in calories. Fatter folks maintain on a lower figure - for example, I probably maintained on about 2300 calories when I weighed 170 lbs and carried about 40% bodyfat (about 13 times my weight). Now, I maintain on about 2200, at 145 lbs and somewhat leaner (just over 15 times my weight).

Now, your goal weight is 200-220. If your maintenance at 200 lbs is 15 times 200, you'll maintain on 3000 calories a day. You were more than likely eating somewhat more than 3000 calories a day to get to 365 lbs, but it won't have been 15 times 365 (5500 calories). It might have been in excess of 4000 calories a day though.

Let's imagine that's what your former maintenance calories actually were. You want to drop bodyfat, and a pound of bodyfat holds about 3500 calories - basically, if you fasted one day a week, you'd lose one pound of fat a week.

Now, I'm over-simplifying; your weight would fluctuate wildly were you to do this because you'd drop glycogen, then gain it back, bloat, and then your weight would finally settle down mid-week to the next fast day, but you get my point: losing even a single pound of bodyfat requires a significant caloric deficit.

So why did you drop so fast at first on Atkins? Well, when you switch from carbs to fats for your calories, you first burn off your stored muscle carbohydrate - glycogen - and it turns out that glycogen holds a LOT of water. Basically, glycogen is "muscle PUDDING" - a special kind of starch bound up in water. Drop your dietary carbs, and your body burns off the glycogen (thus releasing its water) before "switching tanks" and burning fat instead.

This usually takes about 5 days - and most folks on Atkins lose a pound or two daily while they "switch tanks". Now you're eating fewer calories on Atkins, and it's entirely possible you're dropping a pound or two of bodyfat during this first week as well, but most of the weight you'll drop that first week is water.

The SECOND week, you're dropping fat. If you're able to eat 500 calories a day less than usual, you'll drop a pound a week. If you are able to eat 1000 calories a day less than usual, you'll drop TWO pounds a week - and really, that's a LOT of weight to drop when you look at the calories - that's a 7000 calorie-per-week deficit!

Shows like "biggest loser" have them dropping a lot more weight, right? They do it by having them drop muscle. There's only about 500-600 calories in a pound of sirloin steak, so assuming your muscle mass holds about the same calories as a pound of steak, you can lose weight six times faster if you drop muscle than if you drop fat.

Hopefully, you are clear on why this is not a good idea.

You're dropping at a perfect rate. Really.

 

[72Monte]

Wow !!!! I honestly never knew that Built. Thank you so much for explaining that. That was very helpful.