maybe you would be more happy in prison were you could oops drop the soap. there being the way you are would be a benefit. ei more smokes, less beatings, and of course higher protein intake.
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- Thread starter John H.
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Have a good time - that is what you are trying to do...
Hi OD,
Have yourself a good time - that is what you are doing. Let's not kid each other - you know it as well as I. I am speaking to those that truly want to make their lives better through honest understanding NOT necessarily accepting anything for themselves but HONEST UNDERSTANDING about a basic subject of humanity.
Certainly I am capable of expressing my thoughts Man-to-Man - I do that every day with those I come in contact with. And have absolutely no problem with those Men. Nor they with me.
Watch that co-mingling - you wouldn't want others to get the wrong idea would you? Certainly I would not.
I asked you to read a book that has a lot to say from many perspectives and has the sources used to back up what it says. Check those sources out for yourself - do your own investigating. And you attempt to slam something you haven't even looked at - by your own admission. You lose your credibility completely. If you are a Man you certainly will not have a problem whatsover with reading FORBIDDEN FRIENDSHIPS - perhaps you might get upset that it just might point out something to you that you have been unwilling to accept or to really know and then found out you have been completely wrong all along - and with an open mind and objectively. Certainly if you chose not to that is your right as well. When you start criticising others when your thoughts are one-sided and with tunnel-vision and lack accuracy and truthfulness and honesty you loose your credibility.
Not being mean or whatever, but hugs I reserve for people that I truly know and they me and it is something we agree on. A handshake is for a far less intimate contact and more business-like.
Take Care, John H.
OceanDude said:John, John, John,
You sound so flustered. I am truly sorry if you are as agitated as you sound. I honestly thought that you would be capable of expressing your thoughts man-to-man in a way that would be less emotional and more logical. But I understand that you probably have more sensitivity in this area since this is such a huge part of your current life style choice and identity. I can accept that but I just hate to see you so aroused. I accept that some are ???the sensitive type???. I am as sensitive in this regard John as you are when the dialog come to core fundamental beliefs but I have learned to discipline my responses and how I respond to my environment in a way that is perhaps less dramatic. But if you prefer drama that is your freedom as an American. I have embedded additional comments within yours ??? ironically that seems kind of intimate to be commingling words like this in public does it not?.
Take care John and Hugs again,
OD
Hi OD,
Have yourself a good time - that is what you are doing. Let's not kid each other - you know it as well as I. I am speaking to those that truly want to make their lives better through honest understanding NOT necessarily accepting anything for themselves but HONEST UNDERSTANDING about a basic subject of humanity.
Certainly I am capable of expressing my thoughts Man-to-Man - I do that every day with those I come in contact with. And have absolutely no problem with those Men. Nor they with me.
Watch that co-mingling - you wouldn't want others to get the wrong idea would you? Certainly I would not.
I asked you to read a book that has a lot to say from many perspectives and has the sources used to back up what it says. Check those sources out for yourself - do your own investigating. And you attempt to slam something you haven't even looked at - by your own admission. You lose your credibility completely. If you are a Man you certainly will not have a problem whatsover with reading FORBIDDEN FRIENDSHIPS - perhaps you might get upset that it just might point out something to you that you have been unwilling to accept or to really know and then found out you have been completely wrong all along - and with an open mind and objectively. Certainly if you chose not to that is your right as well. When you start criticising others when your thoughts are one-sided and with tunnel-vision and lack accuracy and truthfulness and honesty you loose your credibility.
Not being mean or whatever, but hugs I reserve for people that I truly know and they me and it is something we agree on. A handshake is for a far less intimate contact and more business-like.
Take Care, John H.
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John, this is only the second post I've even looked at of yours and damn you have issues. You must be the gayest gay that ever lived. Or in the immortal words of Homer, this thread is the "suckiest suck that ever sucked". That is Homer Simpson ofcourse.
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im sorry i know im a new member but its pretty obvious that about 95% of the people here just want to talk about sex and have a good time...no1 cares about your satistics and bullshit...
Stallions05 said:
Hi Stallion,
Statistics? Bullshit? No one cares? Sounds like you are putting yourself - at least mentally - in prison...
When anyone refuses to learn honestly and completely about ALL things from ALL sources ALL the time - OBJECTIVELY - they PUT themselves in prison - mental prison - and as the old saying goes make your bed and will sleep in it...
You - or anyone else - no matter how hard you try - CAN NEVER change WHAT IS FACT! That THERE IS variety in Sex - as with ALL things in life - IS FACT and is PROVEN DAILY throughout ALL of time!!!
Take Care, John H.
John H. said:
perfectbody
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Sorry to post again in this infamous thread, but I guess that male population in the past were so wicked in those ways that many religions rose to contain their behaviors.
perfectbody
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but the firgure that 50% is alarming 
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Sounds like something some gay guy made up to make himself feel more accepted. Either that, or my circle of friends here in Texas is exceptionally straight, because I have known very few gay guys, and there are also few straight ones with gay tendencies. Certainly not 50%.
Check it out for yourself and see - criticize AFTER doing so if you wish...
Hi That,
That is why people should READ the book and SEE for themselves - check out the sources - SEE the sources used to write the book for yourself.
What the book shows IS that nearly 50% of ALL MEN (THAT WERE CAUGHT!!! - that does not also mean those that were NOT CAUGHT) - and you then have to ask yourself if this "behavior" is "so wrong" how is it that so many Men found it SO RIGHT and DID IT...
This book is very well written and has received a lot of positive critical acclaim. If you do not believe what the book has to say - what you do is check out for yourself what he has to say and see for yourself - he used source material which has survived. Then after reading this book ask yourself: if this happened in THIS town, what about the rest of the world - surely it happened elsewhere too. So then how is it "so wrong"? And how is it that so many found it "so right"? And ask yourself WHY was those of the "religious right" so upset about this and what is THEIR reason PERSONALLY for so much "objection"? Also REMEMBER THIS: God AND Christ NEVER SAID one time EVER - I REPEAT, EVER - anything about it being wrong for two Men to love each other including sexually. If it was wrong They certainly - THEMSELVES - would have said so - THEY NEVER DID!!! The Bible was written by MEN - over 40 - and over a long period of time each with their own perspectives and roughtly 250 YEARS - TWO HUNDRED FIFTY years + or - AFTER the death of Christ. I do not know about you but this is very strange how someone can say they know everything that happened with accuracy TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS prior - people I know can't even remember with ACCURACY what they did the DAY before let alone 250 YEARS ago...
READ the book and see for yourself - you do not HAVE to agree with it or not - just READ it and see what it has to say - check out the sources used for yourself and do your own research on this subject. ASK questions of EVERYONE - BE OBJECTIVE and open minded about all things. That IS how TRUTH that is ACCURATE is found. To truly find God, He too would want you or I to do that - that IS how we FIND HIM...
Take Care, John H.
thatguy said:
Hi That,
That is why people should READ the book and SEE for themselves - check out the sources - SEE the sources used to write the book for yourself.
What the book shows IS that nearly 50% of ALL MEN (THAT WERE CAUGHT!!! - that does not also mean those that were NOT CAUGHT) - and you then have to ask yourself if this "behavior" is "so wrong" how is it that so many Men found it SO RIGHT and DID IT...
This book is very well written and has received a lot of positive critical acclaim. If you do not believe what the book has to say - what you do is check out for yourself what he has to say and see for yourself - he used source material which has survived. Then after reading this book ask yourself: if this happened in THIS town, what about the rest of the world - surely it happened elsewhere too. So then how is it "so wrong"? And how is it that so many found it "so right"? And ask yourself WHY was those of the "religious right" so upset about this and what is THEIR reason PERSONALLY for so much "objection"? Also REMEMBER THIS: God AND Christ NEVER SAID one time EVER - I REPEAT, EVER - anything about it being wrong for two Men to love each other including sexually. If it was wrong They certainly - THEMSELVES - would have said so - THEY NEVER DID!!! The Bible was written by MEN - over 40 - and over a long period of time each with their own perspectives and roughtly 250 YEARS - TWO HUNDRED FIFTY years + or - AFTER the death of Christ. I do not know about you but this is very strange how someone can say they know everything that happened with accuracy TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS prior - people I know can't even remember with ACCURACY what they did the DAY before let alone 250 YEARS ago...
READ the book and see for yourself - you do not HAVE to agree with it or not - just READ it and see what it has to say - check out the sources used for yourself and do your own research on this subject. ASK questions of EVERYONE - BE OBJECTIVE and open minded about all things. That IS how TRUTH that is ACCURATE is found. To truly find God, He too would want you or I to do that - that IS how we FIND HIM...
Take Care, John H.
your understanding of the bible is flawed. it wasnt written 250 years after the death of christ. it was compiled a few hundred years after his death. and i assume you are talking about the new teastament because the old teastament especially the torah or first 5 books of the old teastament pre-date christ by a long long long time. ask the jews they have some manuscripts you should investigate. you know part of the open minded to ALL THINGS right? and i know you will debate any scripture quoted from the bible about "men lying with men" but i will say this. there is NO evidence to suggest from extemporaneous writtings that homosexuality was ever accepted at any time period in Judeo-Christian history
All I have to say is that I haven't. If you want to engage in sex with another guy, the world is your oyster, do as you wish and enjoy, I'll go hang out with my wife....
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My gosh, John you are something else.John H. said:
First of all, I never said there was anything "so wrong" with anything. Ever. Reread my statement and tell me if you find it. You won't, because you made it up yourself out of nowhere.
Second of all, in my post I recognized the possibility that maybe I had an exceptionally straight set of friends here in Texas. Clearly, I don't think that whatever happens in "THIS town" can't be different from what happens in the rest of the world. Once again, reread my statement and tell me if you find anything stating the contrary. You won't, because you made it up out of nowhere.
While you're at it, look for a sentence mentioning religion or the Bible. I don't know why you keep bringing that up. I'll give you a hint - You won't find it, because you made it up out of nowhere.
Last, while we are criticizing each other's open mindedness and research techniques, I'd like to remind you of a little quote you said regarding your little book...
"If you do not believe what the book has to say - what you do is check out for yourself what he has to say and see for yourself - he used source material which has survived."
Maybe you should be a little less hypocritical and apply this to your own life. If you don't believe what the Bible has to say, you should check it out for yourself - it has plenty of source material that has survived.
Since you brought up religion and the Bible, while you're there "checking it out for yourself," check out Romans 1 in the New Testament and also look at the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Old Testament. That's the one where God (yes, God) destroyed two entire cities because they were full of gay men.
Again, I don't condemn or judge gays by any means - I have several gay friends. I just don't like it when people pick fights and don't have correct information.
Take Care, That G.
bio-chem said:
Hi Bio,
I thought I said "about" - I certainly have said it enough - so kill me because I was 50 years or so off - STILL TWO HUNDRED (or to put it your way "a few hundred") IS STILL A VERY LONG TIME AFTER the Death of Christ. With ACCURACY, WHO THE HELL REMEMBERS what they did YESTERDAY let alone 200 Years AFTER ACCURATELY - and then throw at least 40 different people into the equation!!!!
AND, Christ AND God - NEVER THEMSELVES (I'll REPEAT THAT AGAIN!) THEY NEVER SAID THEMSELVES ONE WORD ABOUT IT EVER. If it was so wrong THEY WOULD HAVE SAID SO THEMSELVES AND THEY NEVER DID. Did They "forget"? They sure are supposed to have said a lot about a lot of other things... And how do you explain the variations in Sexually NATURALLY EXISTING? Including the Plant World...
Perhaps you have said something very truthful - Judaeo-Christian - I can tell you this world has been FAR WORSE OFF because of anything "Judaeo-Christian" - certainly a lot of misery, killing, murder, etc. HAS BEEN BECAUSE OF "Judaeo-Christian"... LOOK HARD AT HISTORY AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. LOOK HARD AT THE PEOPLE in the forefront of ANY religion - what KIND of people THEY REALLY WERE and HOW THEY LIVED THEIR LIVES and what they really were like IN THEIR TIMES... SEARCH HARD and SEACH HONESTLY AND COMPLETELY AND ACCURATELY - and KEEP SEARCHING... You will see what I am saying IS TRUE>
As for the Old Testament (which was not part of the Bible originally until they were combined) it was the Old Jewish Law books and nothing more. Look at it this way - take a VERY CLOSE look at that whole region: you have heat, humidity, sand blowing everywhere (and up everything), high unemployment, people with a lot of time on their hands, humidity, hatred run-amock - and throw "religion" into the equation... And if you think I would ever - or ANYONE ELSE that is truthful and honest and accurate - would ever believe what is said TWO HUNDRED YEARS AFTER and written BY OVER 40 DIFFERENT people each with their own personal take on it all.... Hell I can go down any street in America and ask all people living on that street ONE QUESTION that requires ONE ANSWER and you will NEVER get all people to agree - even on something CURRENT let alone something TWO HUNDRED YEARS AFTER...
AND here is the most important thing. God/Christ KNOW HUMAN BEINGS. What makes you or anyone else think THEY would EVER "allow" human beings to SPEAK FOR THEM and DO THAT TRUTHFULLY? They KNOW human beings and their "potential". To me, if They have something to say THEY WILL SAY SO THEMSELVES - They WOULD NEVER have a human being SPEAK FOR THEM EVER!! And please do not give me that old religious saying "yes but it is God inspired" - I could go out and rob a bank and tell people I did it because God told me to and there would be those that would believe it because I said it was "God inspired"!!! GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!
Religion - which IS MAN MADE - MUST BE truthful, accurate, honest, complete, sincere, etc. NOT MADE UP OR CONTRIVED especially to fit any situation. To FIND GOD truly means anyone UTILIZE the brain EACH OF US has been given to the very best of our abilities HONESTLY and SEACH AND ASK with an open mind objectively and ALL THINGS FROM ALL SOUCES ALL THE TIME and to QUESTION EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE. That IS how truth IS FOUND. Nothing should ever be just shoved down someone else's throat and digested - that is what most "religion" is IN REALITY!!!! Nature and natural world are closer to any TRUTH and is all around us yet look at how many close their eyes to it...
I am AFTER TRUTH - REAL TRUTH - NOT CONTRIVED TRUTH or plain BS.... You show me a "religion" that TRULY IS TRUTHFUL AND ACCURATE AND HONEST - and NOT just out to "collect" money or have some kind of control over others for its own sake.... Show me a "religion" that is not clued at the hips and the lips with politics and politicians!!!!!!
Take Care, John H.
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John H. said:
This is one city and there is no REAL proof from real studies that have of a incidence of this % was happening. Even so SEXUALIY CAN BE CHANGED. I truly believe this. I think a gay person can become bisexual or vice o versa through hard influence or experimentation. So if the culture taught it was ok and even encouraged it then of course its possible a large percentage engaged in it.
While I disagree with the extent to which john H tries to "shove" his beleifs down everyone's throat, what U are quoting here is innacurate....From www.cathedralofhope.com:thatguy said:
The Sodom Story
A chief text used to condemn homosexuality is the Sodom story (Genesis 19:1-29), often interpreted as showing God's abhorrence of homosexuality. In the story, two angels, in the form of men, are sent to the home of Lot in Sodom. While they are there, the men of the city ???both young and old, surrounded the house - everyone without exception??? and demanded that the visitors be brought out ???so that we might know them.??? (Genesis 19: 4-5) Lot begged the men to leave his guests alone and take his daughters instead. The men of the city became angry and stormed the door. As a result, they were all struck blind by the angels.
There are several problems with the traditional interpretation of this passage. Whether or not the intent of the men of Sodom was sexual, the inhospitality and injustice coming from the mob, and that generally characterized the community, were ???the sin of Sodom.??? (Ezekial 16:49-50, Isaiah 13:19, Jeremiah 49:18; 50:40) Jesus himself refers to the inhospitality of Sodom. (Luke 10:10-13) If the men were indeed homosexuals, then why would Lot offer them his daughters? What is threatened here is rape. The significant point, then, is that all rape is considered horrible by God. The story deserves another reading.
It should be noted that not all of the men of Sodom could have been homosexual or there would have been no need to destroy them. If they had all been homosexuals, they would have all died off leaving no heirs. Quite likely, they were a mixed group of evil men attempting to be abusive to people who were different. Ironically, lesbian and gay people are often the victim of that same sin.
Although the traditional interpretation of the Sodom story fails as an argument against homosexuality, there are several other Old Testament passages that do condemn homosexual acts. Again, it should be noted that these passages do not deal with same-sex orientation nor is there any reference to genital love between lesbian or gay persons.
Although the traditional interpretation of the Sodom story fails as an argument against homosexuality, there are several other Old Testament passages that do condemn homosexual acts. Again, it should be noted that these passages do not deal with same-sex orientation nor is there any reference to genital love between lesbian or gay persons.
Damn man, why are 90% of the posts these days about gay shit? Im tired of reading about sucking dongs, swallowing wad and Souped Up jacking it to John H. This picture is needed...
sorry to be gay again, but thats real nice!gococksDJS said:Damn man, why are 90% of the posts these days about gay shit? Im tired of reading about sucking dongs, swallowing wad and Souped Up jacking it to John H. This picture is needed...
crazy_enough said:sorry to be gay again, but thats real nice!
There's no apologies needed because yes that is a nice ass...crazy_enough said:sorry to be gay again, but thats real nice!
John, wow you didnt read what i said at all. you just started writing a response. the bible was COMPILED after the death of Christ not WRITTEN. the men who wrote it mathew, mark, luke, john, peter, paul. knew Christ. they lived in his time period and were taught by him personally. what they wrote down they wrote as prophets and apostles. these are not ordinary men. a prophet and an apostle are men with a calling from God. You do not have to accept these writtings as "inspired", but christians do. these men by virtue of there callings were givin the responsibility by Christ to lead his church after his death and resurection. this all means what they wrote is accepted as coming directly from god to his apostles then to us. If one of His prophets tried to come up with his own doctrine and teach it as coming from Christ, then Christ would first remove him from his calling or position. Now im not sure why i bothered with all this, but this is the basic belief system of christians. Christ cannot always be here on the earth to lead his people so he calls prophets to lead after him. This is where Christians are coming from. this is our basic belief system. i hope you can understand this is why we feel the way we do on certian issues. whether you agree or not.
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Get ready, bio-chem, because here comes a flurry of capital letters, cliche words like "natural" and "variety" and "open mind," and responses that seem to completely ignore what you just said. Then he'll say "men are human" and we can't trust what they say, only what God says himself, and God never said being gay was wrong. (What seems weird about this statement is that if God HAD said that, a man would have had to hear him and repeat it to us, which could then make it "invalid" because men are too human to remember what people say correctly.) Then he'll end it off with something about how people find God with the brain He gave them.
It's almost like clockwork...
(Now that I've exploited all of his stuff, let's see what he says)
It's almost like clockwork...
(Now that I've exploited all of his stuff, let's see what he says)
Hi ThatGuy,thatguy said:
Warped? Angry?
So what is it about "religion" that anyone with any SANITY about them should be happy about?
Murder?
Killing others for the sake of religious beliefs?
Making others miserable by staying in relationships that are never going to go anywhere but you "have to stay because you are told to"?
Wars - over who's religion is the "right one"?
Fighting over who's "god is the true god"?
Damning children because "we are told they too have original sin" (HELL they haven't even lived long enough to even speak let alone do anything that is sinful and already someone is damning them to hell)?
Saying God (who is our Father) damns ALL people after Adam and Eve because they sinned (having Sex - the forbidden fruit) so now everyone else forever is now damned because of what only those two did - no Father I know would ever do that to ALL his children FOREVER....
And I can go on and on with this list...
No God that IS would EVER have anything to do with all this CRAP!!!!
I look to nature and the natural world which is where the REAL God exists.
If that sinks your boat so be it.
Take Care, John H.
Souped_up said:
Hi Souped,
READ the book and then tell me what you think AFTER. See the sources used to write the book - check them out for yourself. Most that criticize this book in a negative view have never even read the book. The Man (Michael Rocke) wrote the book using SOURCE MATERIAL that has survived that talks about just one town in Italy - so if SOURCE MATERIAL existed in other towns I am sure the same conclusion would be drawn as well elsewhere if the same situations existed.
If you think a person's sexually can be changed, then let me ask you when you plan on changing yours? Or are you now BiSexual now?
Here's the thing - when people LOOK with an OPEN MIND OBJECTIVELY and RESEARCH they do tend to find answers that are truthful and accurate. This should be a lifelong pursuit for everyone IF they really want to know about anything in life and living AND UNDERSTAND - that does not mean they have to "agree" with everything but they will have some honest UNDERSTANDING.
Take Care, John H.
Souped_up said:Hi thatguy,
What it comes down to HONESTLY - is John WANTS religion to FIT HIM- NOT HIM FIT religion.
Take care, Souped_up
Hi Souped,
NOTHING could be FURTHER from the truth in what you just said. But I sure see a LOT of lying in "religion" and a LOT of BULLSHIT that is NOT based on FACTS or how things in life REALLY ARE.
Take Care, John H.
crazy_enough said:
Hi Crazy,
Joseph Smith founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and he said it is just fine to have multilple wives and they did and in some areas still do. He "saw visions"...
What you are quoting IS WRITTEN BY MEN - NOT GOD. NOT CHRIST. And from an area in the world where there is a lot of heat, humidity, sand blowing everwhere, unemployment, hatred for each other, variations in religious beliefs to the point of killing each other other whose "religion" is the "right religion", etc. ........
And I might add even the religious scholars differ on what the Bible has to say really. They even disagree over what is said and meant. To this very day...
So now is "religion" going to go out in the fields and look for all BiSexual and Homosexual animals and "straighten them out" or "damn them" or "kill them" because of their NATURAL Sexuality? Or how about BiSexual plants? Or Asexual plants? Ad infinitum!!!!!
I look to the REAL GOD not the contrived "god"....
Take Care, John H.
