Same Sex Marriages

[kbm8795]

suck it up? wow. and gays get mad when we dont show total empathy. i would say my Christianity is every part as much of me as you feel homosexuality is as a part of you. this could be debated no end i understand that, so i will be short. people can be born to parents who believe in Christ, and even baptized in a Christian church, yet not truely consider themselves Christian. the Christians who die for their faith in Christ are different than these. You would rather die than give up being homosexual, because you believe thats who you are, Christians wont deny the faith, because because Christ has become a part of them.

Hmm...that's a curious statement. Since you are so certain you were born christian, one wonders where the religious get the concept of being "born again."

Something tells me that joining the Baptist church isn't quite the same thing as being born gay. But the poor persecuted "christians" who have never waged a war or shed the blood of another, seem to think they have some special knowledge about sexuality that is just enough to deny fellow citizens basic rights, but demand they be the only group in this nation allowed to discriminate against others. This, of course, is based upon nothing more than their chosen belief, not an innate characteristic. Apparently the only "lifestyle" worthy of elevated social status is their own. Go figure.

 

[kbm8795]

yeah re-read my posts from like 15 pages ago. like i said ive heard the arguement before, it didnt change how i view homosexuality. if that makes me close-minded so be it. your trying to split hairs, i see it as the same issue. unless we should allow pedophiles as well because thats what they are sexually attracted to. you dont need to answer that crazy enough said her response to the same thing like a month ago on this thread. neither of us came up with anything acceptable to the others satisfaction. truthfully its all getting really old.

If I recall correctly, religious conservatives uttered not a word when the Catholic Church covered up fifty years of pedophilia and sexual abuse. Now that's some platform to moralize to others about. . .

 

[bio-chem]

oh no you figured us out. we will not let this information pass into the hands of heathen. now we must abduct you and erase your memory, and turn you into the perfect obedient maleable christian. free thinkers must be avoided at all cost. do not resist. ha ha ha. you have some pretty good conspiracy theories, maybe you should write for C.S.I.

 

[kbm8795]

If I wanted to be that creative, I'd be more apt to write for one of the dozens of christian impersonater organizations which ignore the hundreds of biblical passages about helping the poor to pour millions of solicited dollars into spreading fear about other humans. One of their biggest charades is the obvious obsession with how and what others do in a sexual act - in fact, they base their entire "moral" argument concerning marriage not on people loving each other, but on the imagined perceptions of sexual acts they've created in their own minds.

This, of course, shouldn't be any surprise to anyone. For centuries, the christian concept of marriage was nothing more than a dictated familial relationship that neither recognized the right of either party to fall in love, or believed individuals in the relationship had any say in that holy union. So, when they complain about how they do not "believe" in gay relationships, they frame it exclusively in sexual terms rather than consider that the greatest mystery of God's creation is how and why people fall in love. Rather than address this issue as the basis for considering how these relationships form, they perhaps call into question their own reasons for getting married - and apparently for many of them, they have much more to do with having sex than being in love.

 

[kbm8795]

oh no you figured us out. we will not let this information pass into the hands of heathen. now we must abduct you and erase your memory, and turn you into the perfect obedient maleable christian. free thinkers must be avoided at all cost. do not resist. ha ha ha. you have some pretty good conspiracy theories, maybe you should write for C.S.I.

It really doesn't take much investigation to figure this out. If you read any of the federal (and most state) statutes prohibiting discrimination against groups based on race, gender and religious beliefs in employment, for example, you'll notice that the only organizations exempt from these laws are. . .gosh. . .religious groups. In fact, "conservative" christians use their "special rights" status to complain that the federal government, for example, cannot put sexual orientation into employment discrimination laws EVEN when they exempt churches from the policy because they believe their right to discriminate would be violated in hiring for private businesses owned by members of those churches. They use the same argument for housing protection laws. Such dedication to the "love thy neighbor as thyself."

 

[John H.]

suck it up? wow. and gays get mad when we dont show total empathy. i would say my Christianity is every part as much of me as you feel homosexuality is as a part of you. this could be debated no end i understand that, so i will be short. people can be born to parents who believe in Christ, and even baptized in a Christian church, yet not truely consider themselves Christian. the Christians who die for their faith in Christ are different than these. You would rather die than give up being homosexual, because you believe thats who you are, Christians wont deny the faith, because because Christ has become a part of them.

Hi Bio,

One thing for sure I find very interesting - how "religious" types ARE the very people who ARE HATERS AND BIGOTS. And they will tell others how "Christian" they are - I do not ever remember Christ being a hater or a bigot.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

If I recall correctly, religious conservatives uttered not a word when the Catholic Church covered up fifty years of pedophilia and sexual abuse. Now that's some platform to moralize to others about. . .

Hi Kbm,

And it PROVES the "justice system" is only for the "selected".

If I tried what the Catholic Church DID myself (and I can ASSURE YOU I WOULD NEVER EVEN ENTERTAIN SUCH AN IDEA EVER) (probably for their ENTIRE existance too - it is NOT just something that has happened recently!!!), I as an individual would and should BE FRIED. But because it was "the church"...

Do not kid yourself, the Catholic Church KNEW what was going on. And the Catholic Church was the AUTHOR of that happening because they demand their people follow their rules and beliefs especially with regard to Sex. NO HUMAN BEING was ever meant to be "abstinent" - it is totally UNnatural to be and to ask someone to be is bull****. The Catholic Church itself IS RESPONSIBLE for what the Priests - and the Nuns too - DID. The Church required those people to live their lives the way they did if they wanted to remain "in good standing" in the Church.

Take Care, John H.

 

[RexStunnahH]

Look old fart, Ill keep this one short and simple, so that u actually understand what I say, with no need for your closed minded, know it all interpretations:
If u didnt read my post, why the fuck do u reply? Is it the urge to call me a dyke? Does that turn u on? No, hold on Im a "bra-burning,bomb throwing, leftist dyke"... My bad!
I think thats its mostly because beyond ure little pride bearing uniform and quick mindless replies hides a poor little old man, with about as much empathy and common sense as a 2X4! Or maybe its simply because u cant handle being faced with the truth!
WOOHOO for Rich46yo, he works with a dyke and loves it, what a great display of empathy!

Maybe in the future u could learn to read and understand words that have more than 5 letters..h-o-m-o-s-e-x-u-a-l-i-t-y is a great place to start!

your favorite "bra-burning,bomb throwing, leftist dyke"

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Nicely Put

 

[Pepper]

... that is just enough to deny fellow citizens basic rights

kbm, the drama and the bs you are posting is really somewhat comical.

Is marriage really a basic right? Come on.

Those of us against gay marriage are not all out to get homosexuals. We just think it is a lifestyle choice that is wrong. Many of my choices are wrong too, so I am not here to judge. However, marriage if for one man/one woman, period.

While it seems that Christians are losing the culture war in this country, this is one that will not be lost. I firmly believe Kerry lost b/c many Christian blacks voted Bush over this issue.

Trying to paint those of us who are against gay marriage as fanatical bigots or waiving the Catholic church's problem in my face is poor debating.

Pepper

 

[Pepper]

Hi Bio,

One thing for sure I find very interesting - how "religious" types ARE the very people who ARE HATERS AND BIGOTS. And they will tell others how "Christian" they are - I do not ever remember Christ being a hater or a bigot.

Take Care, John H.

I am a hater b/c I think homosexuality is wrong?

I am bigot b/c I think homosexuality is wrong?

That is pure crap, John H., I am assume you know that. It is just an easy point to make....It really is a simple-minded and lame arguement to simply try to paint those against a way of life as haters or bigots.

 

[crazy_enough]

kbm, the drama and the bs you are posting is really somewhat comical.

Is marriage really a basic right? Come on.

Those of us against gay marriage are not all out to get homosexuals. We just think it is a lifestyle choice that is wrong. Many of my choices are wrong too, so I am not here to judge. However, marriage if for one man/one woman, period.

While it seems that Christians are losing the culture war in this country, this is one that will not be lost. I firmly believe Kerry lost b/c many Christian blacks voted Bush over this issue.

Trying to paint those of us who are against gay marriage as fanatical bigots or waiving the Catholic church's problem in my face is poor debating.

Pepper

The right to love, be loved, share your life with a partner of your choice, marry and not be ridiculed, protested or demonstrated against for it is a basic one! Just turn the situation around and see how u'd feel if others, who have no meaning whatsoever in ur life, were in charge or deciding who u can or cannot marry!
The only reason why the catholic church's crap was laid out repeatedly in this thread is that for most against gay mariages, religion is the only argument!

 

[Eggs]

Hi Bio,
And they will tell others how "Christian" they are - I do not ever remember Christ being a hater or a bigot.

You'd be pretty old if you did

 

[John H.]

kbm, the drama and the bs you are posting is really somewhat comical.

Is marriage really a basic right? Come on.

Those of us against gay marriage are not all out to get homosexuals. We just think it is a lifestyle choice that is wrong. Many of my choices are wrong too, so I am not here to judge. However, marriage if for one man/one woman, period.

While it seems that Christians are losing the culture war in this country, this is one that will not be lost. I firmly believe Kerry lost b/c many Christian blacks voted Bush over this issue.

Trying to paint those of us who are against gay marriage as fanatical bigots or waiving the Catholic church's problem in my face is poor debating.

Pepper

Hi Pepper,

You mention "...fanatical bigots...". Truth is many who are against someone living their life as they choose and each agree upon comes from hatred and bigotry that IS LEARNED AND IS TAUGHT AND IS FOSTERED by "religion".

First of all, marriage IS a MAN-MADE thing. You can see this in the history of it. Accurate research into this will show this.

What two people want to do with regard to a personal relationship - as long as they each are of age and ability of consent and give that consent freely - is entirely their business and no one else's ever. Not yours, mine, or anyone else's or the government or "religion". It is entirely a private matter.

I would like to see "marriage" performed in churches ONLY because it is basically a "religious institution" therefore "marriage" should be performed there. And those "marriages" can be only for one male and one female and be only performed within a "church". Historically though "marriages" of the same-sex were also performed within the "church" - see SAME-SEX UNIONS IN PRE-MODERN EUROPE, By John Boswell. There is other information in this regard also.

Basically we are talking about a "term" being applied to something which in this case is "marriage" or "civil union" or whatever...

As for anyone else, I feel it could be called a "civil union" or whatever other appropriate term that would fit the legal definition that would allow EVERYONE - "married" or otherwise - to have the very same benefits of those unions ("marriage" or "civil unions" or otherwise). No matter what it is called it would be legally recognized across the nation in every state just as our highways are the same and have the same rules and regulations across the country. "Religion" can keep its ceremonies within each "religion" and if they choose within their respective "churches" and all others can have their ceremonies performed by a judge or some other public official for example and anyone can have their joining mutually agreed to recorded for all legal purposes. But EVERY "ceremony" would be treated the same for legal purposes. That way the "church" stays within its "jurisdiction" and all other "ceremonies" are performed by the government. ALL have the same legal rights.

Those who have any "disagreement" with Homosexuality or BiSexuality have been TAUGHT that "belief" by "religion". The FACTS ARE that Heterosexuality, BiSexuality and Homosexuality ARE COMPLETELY NATURAL and DO EXIST in Nature and the Natural world. And always have and always will. To truly understand that would take a reasonable and open-minded person the desire to do their own research into all this and see the facts and UNDERSTAND those facts as they are in life and in living. Whether you or I or anyone else "accept" it is entirely up to them and their "learning" but the facts still do not change - each is a natural variation and naturally exist. To know why a person would have to ask the Creator Himself. He is the One who created this earth. UNDERSTANDING the variations in Sexuality requires a person to do their own research and perhaps take courses in biology and botany which would be a good beginning. How they ultimately "feel" about is all is entirely up to them but hopefully it will at least be based on the best information out there.

The hatred and the bigotry IS ENTIRELY because of "religious teaching". Period.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

I am a hater b/c I think homosexuality is wrong?

I am bigot b/c I think homosexuality is wrong?

That is pure crap, John H., I am assume you know that. It is just an easy point to make....It really is a simple-minded and lame arguement to simply try to paint those against a way of life as haters or bigots.

Hi Pepper,

I did not make that statement lightly or without serious thought.

The hatred and the bigotry ARE because on what IS LEARNED and TAUGHT by "religion". Period. To disagree with someone because of something is one thing but the hatred and the bigotry are certainly a representation of the extreme.

"Pure crap..." - not at all. It goes DIRECTLY to the heart of the problem and the discussion. A person's viewpoint is based mostly upon what they LEARN and are TAUGHT. Hatred and bigotry are LEARNED AND TAUGHT.

Simply disagreeing is one thing. Or something that is not "for me" is one thing, but the hatred and the bigotry is entirely another matter and the extreme. And "religious" people can be and very often are extreme. And fanatical. Look around you and look around the world. The wars that have been fought in the past and present are mostly based on extremism and fanaticism and "religion".

If I had it in my power to wipe off the face of the earth three things, these are what I would choose in a heartbeat:

1) The abuse of children by anyone in any form anytime.

2) Politics.

3) Religion.

You can ask then what would we have then and what would the result be. It would BE PEACE and HAPPINESS for all most likely. Truthfully so.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

The right to love, be loved, share your life with a partner of your choice, marry and not be ridiculed, protested or demonstrated against for it is a basic one! Just turn the situation around and see how u'd feel if others, who have no meaning whatsoever in ur life, were in charge or deciding who u can or cannot marry!
The only reason why the catholic church's crap was laid out repeatedly in this thread is that for most against gay mariages, religion is the only argument!

Hi Crazy,

The Catholic Church has been at the forefront of hatred and bigotry and misinformation and outright lying. Presently and in their past as well. They are not the only ones either.

You mention things that ARE basic.

In my research which is ongoing here is what I have found with regard to all this "anit-Homosexual", etc. stuff:

"Religions" used to have holy wars. They fought and killed each other over who's "religion" was the "right" and/or "true religion". They fought and killed each other over who's "god" was the "true god" or not. Courts were even "religious" not like today where their is civil and criminal and operated by the government. If some "religion" did not "like you" for whatever reason they certainly could and did put people to death for any number of reasons...

In fighting these "holy wars" people died. So in order to gain new and more "troops" to do all this fighting they needed more people to be born. If a person did not procreate there was no replacement of "troops". Therefore there was fear of loosing the war. So "religions" demanded (they will "say" "encouraged") people have more children to "procreate".

Additionally, more people within a certain "religion" means more power and more money (after those with the money give it up in the form of actual cash or property to the respective "religion"). "Religions" prey on people and their fears and the unknown. They do this very successfully. Look at all the people who are fearful of the unknown. Also, this causes the "religion" to have more control of people and their lives and living.

No one has any right to take away from others their rights. Especially the most basic. And needed.

Take Care, John H.

 

[crazy_enough]

Well, noone, not the church, not haters within my own family and "friends", not the media or the polls and surveys that they conduct prevented me from making that pledge, that promise to my wonderful wife, before a judge, in a court room, where about 15 of the 75 people invited were present to witness our civil union. Noone has prevented us form being happy, raising two amazing children and leading productive, meaningful lives. Noone or nothing will prevent us form adopting or giving birth to children, being there for one another in case of illness or hospitalization, benefiting from all of the same financial "perks" as heterosexual married couples...Noone matters!!! We have loved each other in the face of the world for 6 years now.

Religion is not the problem...Politics are not the problem...People are the problem...We all live our little sheltered lives and want noone to judge us, yet we are quick to lay judgement and exclude those who's ideas or thinking differs from ours! I think its too easy to say that religions have caused the downfall of acceptance. The people hiding behind their understanding or interpretation of whichever religious trend they have embarked on just isnt helping!

 

[fantasma62]

Hi Pepper,

I did not make that statement lightly or without serious thought.

The hatred and the bigotry ARE because on what IS LEARNED and TAUGHT by "religion". Period. To disagree with someone because of something is one thing but the hatred and the bigotry are certainly a representation of the extreme.

"Pure crap..." - not at all. It goes DIRECTLY to the heart of the problem and the discussion. A person's viewpoint is based mostly upon what they LEARN and are TAUGHT. Hatred and bigotry are LEARNED AND TAUGHT.

Simply disagreeing is one thing. Or something that is not "for me" is one thing, but the hatred and the bigotry is entirely another matter and the extreme. And "religious" people can be and very often are extreme. And fanatical. Look around you and look around the world. The wars that have been fought in the past and present are mostly based on extremism and fanaticism and "religion".

If I had it in my power to wipe off the face of the earth three things, these are what I would choose in a heartbeat:

1) The abuse of children by anyone in any form anytime.

2) Politics.

3) Religion.

You can ask then what would we have then and what would the result be. It would BE PEACE and HAPPINESS for all most likely. Truthfully so.

Take Care, John H.

John, sorry my friend but this whole post is bullshit. Religion teaches hatred and bigotry? I am sorry, nobody else teaches that, just religion?
Let me tell you , I am insulted by that comment because I DON'T HATE AND I AM NOT A BIGGOT, yet I have been a catholic all my life and have never on purpose hurt anyone because I can imagine what it may feel like to get hurt. So, I take offense to your whole post because once again, you are basically generalizing and lumping religion and its people as a hateful, prejudiced entity. Religion is man made and run by men, therefore it's flawed. That's the one thing I don't disagree with, however, your generalization is bullshit. But I am not surprised by your usual comments, you have been trying to indoctrinate people by repeating the same thing over and over again. People rebut and you just repeat the same thing with different words, thus redundant.

Regarding your comment to CE about the catholic church, I now know that you also hate. You aren't in peace as you say and you aren't as happy as you say you are, because when you attack a religion of any sorts, you are attacking its people, and when you attack (as you constantly do), you have hatred in your heart for those people. I said weeks earlier that you were in a crusade because you don't like religion and hate the catholic church. That's what I get from you, hatred, which I understand wasn't taught to you by religion. Unless now you come tell me that yes, it was taught to you by religion...

I am even more bothered by the fact that you are making the non-religious to be the peace loving, non hurting people. We are all humans, and believe it or not atheists are as shitty as religious people. I have never heard you say anything bad about "your people". You are just mad because your bisexuality isn't accepted by some, so you must lump everyone, whether we are hate you or don't into your frustration and hatred. This is what I get out of your rants John H., no more, no less, just an agenda, that's all...

John, I don't hate you and you can be as bisexual as you want to be, I applaud your willingness to be who you want to be. You also have a right to your opinon, but you need to understand that your words will hurt others. By your earlier statement you unwillingly lumped me in with religious fanatics who hate. You lumped me in with biggots, racists and murderers, rapists and child abusers. There are many of those in every religious and non religious homes. I have learned a few things from my religion, in fact, each of us gets from religion what we want. I chose peace and brotherhood. I chose understanding and love. That this sounds corny I am sure of, but that's the "mantra" that I live by. I try not to hurt and I try to listen to learn to live with others in peace and harmony. Sure, there are teachings that are offensive and hurtful to some people, but those teachings, I have chosen not to follow because I don't feel like hating or ridiculing others because they don't think like I do.
I have always chosen to keep my mouth shut because I don't talk religion or politics. I have come to understand that there is always an argument in that conversation, but man, oh man, that's all you do, attack religion, and thus, the people in them. I am one of them, and I take offense to that....

 

[fantasma62]

Well, noone, not the church, not haters within my own family and "friends", not the media or the polls and surveys that they conduct prevented me from making that pledge, that promise to my wonderful wife, before a judge, in a court room, where about 15 of the 75 people invited were present to witness our civil union. Noone has prevented us form being happy, raising two amazing children and leading productive, meaningful lives. Noone or nothing will prevent us form adopting or giving birth to children, being there for one another in case of illness or hospitalization, benefiting from all of the same financial "perks" as heterosexual married couples...Noone matters!!! We have loved each other in the face of the world for 6 years now.

Religion is not the problem...Politics are not the problem...People are the problem...We all live our little sheltered lives and want noone to judge us, yet we are quick to lay judgement and exclude those who's ideas or thinking differs from ours! I think its too easy to say that religions have caused the downfall of acceptance. The people hiding behind their understanding or interpretation of whichever religious trend they have embarked on just isnt helping!

Hey beautiful, first of all Happy Valentines....

Second, I agree with you 1,000,000 percent. People are the problem whether religious or non religious....You may get atheists who hate the fact that you are happy being who you are and happy with whom you are married to and get a fat catholic who wants to know that you are happy and that you will have loads of fun during Valentines...

 

[Eggs]

#1: John, you obviously dont believe in a God... so, if you, like me, dont believe in a God, then tell me... what is religion? Its a man made instrument. So if you believe that there is no god and religion is man made, then you have to believe that what goes into it is man made. So, is religion the problem, or is man the problem? I could create a religion that seemed perfect and lock it up in my closet (figuritively speaking) and no wars would come of it, or hatred. However, once man gets involved I would be willing to bet the boat (no I dont really have one) that it would degenerate from there.

Hrmm, wars are usually about religion? Okay, well lets look at the 2 biggest wars in history, WW1 and WW2. Were those about religion? I personally think that they were based on a pretty whacked out political agenda, but religion?

You obviously have hatred of religion (dont deny it, if you didnt you wouldnt bring it up in almost every post you make and criticize it), but I think that it clouds your thoughts more than it should. Good things as well as bad have been a part of religion.

As to homosexuality being natural.. well, I always thought that sex was originally based on the ability to procreate. At least from an evolutionary perspective, or do you not believe in that? That said, I dont think homosexuals have a very good chance of having children naturally. Some might argue that having sex with a condom on isnt natural... so be it, but really, who cares. I'd be a bit more wary when dictating to the world what nature has in mind though

 

[fantasma62]

Another thing John, because I am a catholic, does it mean that I have more access to money than you? Or maybe it has to do with the fact that I BUST MY ASS working daily and have an education and busted my ass getting and paying for that freaking education?

Holy Wars? How far back are you going to pull dirt? Can you tell me when the holy wars occurred John? Wasn't it during the 1400's? Didn't they have to do with land occupation? The moors emigrated into land that belonged to the spaniards, thus a war ensued. Maybe I am wrong but I believe that was the reason for the war. Do you think that the palestinians and israelis today are fighting over which religion is better? No, they are fighting over land. Go back to your books and read. Wars simply had to do with gaining lands. If you won, you got the land. The Scotts and the English, THE WAR OF INDEPENDENCE here, in the all of the Americas.....
When you want to be critical of the catholic religion because of violence, then you need look at more recent events, because if you have to go back to the crusades and holy war, you are defeating your own point. Torquemada wasn't a guy who raped a woman yesterday at the mall. He was an extremist who "USED" the religion to serve his purpose. This happened hundreds of years ago John, not yesterday.....
Boy you really pissed me off today bud....

 

[crazy_enough]

Hey beautiful, first of all Happy Valentines....

Second, I agree with you 1,000,000 percent. People are the problem whether religious or non religious....You may get atheists who hate the fact that you are happy being who you are and happy with whom you are married to and get a fat catholic who wants to know that you are happy and that you will have loads of fun during Valentines...

Right back at ya Tony! I wish the both of u lotsa lovin' today and all other 364 days of the year! (but today, she better get to orgasm twice!!lol)

I do beleive that there are SOME problems or issues regarding acceptance with CERTAIN political or religious groups, but those problems live within the people who cause them, not within their religious beleifs....I dont beleive in god, but I can certainly see how it provides faith, comfort and strenght for some. Most religions are founded on the basis of love and inclusiveness, but who can predict how each and every individual will interpret those teachings. Hate is in the heart, not in a book or writings!

 

[fantasma62]

Right back at ya Tony! I wish the both of u lotsa lovin' today and all other 364 days of the year! (but today, she better get to orgasm twice!!lol)

I do beleive that there are SOME problems or issues regarding acceptance with CERTAIN political or religious groups, but those problems live within the people who cause them, not within their religious beleifs....I dont beleive in god, but I can certainly see how it provides faith, comfort and strenght for some. Most religions are founded on the basis of love and inclusiveness, but who can predict how each and every individual will interpret those teachings. Hate is in the heart, not in a book or writings!

Once again Grasshopper you have taught the teacher a lesson......
and we already had our Valentines celebration on saturday, big party, loads of dancing, then the party had to end

 

[gococksDJS]

Hi Pepper,

I did not make that statement lightly or without serious thought.

The hatred and the bigotry ARE because on what IS LEARNED and TAUGHT by "religion". Period. To disagree with someone because of something is one thing but the hatred and the bigotry are certainly a representation of the extreme.

"Pure crap..." - not at all. It goes DIRECTLY to the heart of the problem and the discussion. A person's viewpoint is based mostly upon what they LEARN and are TAUGHT. Hatred and bigotry are LEARNED AND TAUGHT.

Simply disagreeing is one thing. Or something that is not "for me" is one thing, but the hatred and the bigotry is entirely another matter and the extreme. And "religious" people can be and very often are extreme. And fanatical. Look around you and look around the world. The wars that have been fought in the past and present are mostly based on extremism and fanaticism and "religion".

If I had it in my power to wipe off the face of the earth three things, these are what I would choose in a heartbeat:

1) The abuse of children by anyone in any form anytime.

2) Politics.

3) Religion.

You can ask then what would we have then and what would the result be. It would BE PEACE and HAPPINESS for all most likely. Truthfully so.

Take Care, John H.

John H, im not even going to dignify your moronic posts with a response anymore. You are such a close minded ignorant person who thinks that everything that opposes your views is rooted in evil and bigotry and the only thing that would make you happy is if we all lived naked in some huge gay community in the woods somewhere. Your posts are the worst.

 

[fantasma62]

John H, im not even going to dignify your moronic posts with a response anymore. You are such a close minded ignorant person who thinks that everything that opposes your views is rooted in evil and bigotry and the only thing that would make you happy is if we all lived naked in some huge gay community in the woods somewhere. Your posts are the worst.

By the way John, just in case you are wondering, I am not laughing at you, I don't do that, it's just that GococksDJS' comment made me burst out laughing. Thanks G, I needed that....

 

[John H.]

John, sorry my friend but this whole post is bullshit. Religion teaches hatred and bigotry? I am sorry, nobody else teaches that, just religion?
Let me tell you , I am insulted by that comment because I DON'T HATE AND I AM NOT A BIGGOT, yet I have been a catholic all my life and have never on purpose hurt anyone because I can imagine what it may feel like to get hurt. So, I take offense to your whole post because once again, you are basically generalizing and lumping religion and its people as a hateful, prejudiced entity. Religion is man made and run by men, therefore it's flawed. That's the one thing I don't disagree with, however, your generalization is bullshit. But I am not surprised by your usual comments, you have been trying to indoctrinate people by repeating the same thing over and over again. People rebut and you just repeat the same thing with different words, thus redundant.
Regarding your comment to CE about the catholic church, I now know that you also hate. You aren't in peace as you say and you aren't as happy as you say you are, because when you attack a religion of any sorts, you are attacking its people, and when you attack (as you constantly do), you have hatred in your heart for those people. I said weeks earlier that you were in a crusade because you don't like religion and hate the catholic church. That's what I get from you, hatred, which I understand wasn't taught to you by religion. Unless now you come tell me that yes, it was taught to you by religion...
I am even more bothered by the fact that you are making the non-religious to be the peace loving, non hurting people. We are all humans, and believe it or not atheists are as shitty as religious people. I have never heard you say anything bad about "your people". You are just mad because your bisexuality isn't accepted by some, so you must lump everyone, whether we are hate you or don't into your frustration and hatred. This is what I get out of your rants John H., no more, no less, just an agenda, that's all...

John, I don't hate you and you can be as bisexual as you want to be, I applaud your willingness to be who you want to be. You also have a right to your opinon, but you need to understand that your words will hurt others. By your earlier statement you unwillingly lumped me in with religious fanatics who hate. You lumped me in with biggots, racists and murderers, rapists and child abusers. There are many of those in every religious and non religious homes. I have learned a few things from my religion, in fact, each of us gets from religion what we want. I chose peace and brotherhood. I chose understanding and love. That this sounds corny I am sure of, but that's the "mantra" that I live by. I try not to hurt and I try to listen to learn to live with others in peace and harmony. Sure, there are teachings that are offensive and hurtful to some people, but those teachings, I have chosen not to follow because I don't feel like hating or ridiculing others because they don't think like I do.
I have always chosen to keep my mouth shut because I don't talk religion or politics. I have come to understand that there is always an argument in that conversation, but man, oh man, that's all you do, attack religion, and thus, the people in them. I am one of them, and I take offense to that....

Hi Tony,

It is I and people like me that are under attack and mostly from "religious people" and those people base their hatred and their bigotry toward others based on those "religious teachings". As long as I am attacked I will respond - I have a right to defend myself. I base that on what IS happening.

For those that are not full of hate and bigotry I feel THEY are the very people who are good and kind and honest and sincere and care about their fellow man.

I would have absolutely nothing to say if what I say were not true. Sure there are exceptions to everything. That is a given. But the history, past and present practices are what I go by. Look at the record.

It is NEVER my intention to harm or hurt in any way anyone that is a decent person. EVER. And they know who they are.

My statements are made for those that are guilty. Not you. It does not apply to you - which I am sure you already know.

"Religion" has been playing this "record" for awhile and are having it gain "steam" because they want to further their aggenda. So I am replying and rightfully so.

I base my words on facts and the history of it all.

Take Care, John H.

 

[John H.]

Hey beautiful, first of all Happy Valentines....

Second, I agree with you 1,000,000 percent. People are the problem whether religious or non religious....You may get atheists who hate the fact that you are happy being who you are and happy with whom you are married to and get a fat catholic who wants to know that you are happy and that you will have loads of fun during Valentines...

Hi Tony,

ABSOLUTELY!!!

Take Care, John H.

 

[fantasma62]

Hi Tony,

It is I and people like me that are under attack and mostly from "religious people" and those people base their hatred and their bigotry toward others based on those "religious teachings". As long as I am attacked I will respond - I have a right to defend myself. I base that on what IS happening.

For those that are not full of hate and bigotry I feel THEY are the very people who are good and kind and honest and sincere and care about their fellow man.

I would have absolutely nothing to say if what I say were not true. Sure there are exceptions to everything. That is a given. But the history, past and present practices are what I go by. Look at the record.

It is NEVER my intention to harm or hurt in any way anyone that is a decent person. EVER. And they know who they are.

My statements are made for those that are guilty. Not you. It does not apply to you - which I am sure you already know.

"Religion" has been playing this "record" for awhile and are having it gain "steam" because they want to further their aggenda. So I am replying and rightfully so.

I base my words on facts and the history of it all.

Take Care, John H.

John, you say that you are basing your words on facts and history but I dont' think we are reading the same books. Religion is abstract, is not a person or thing, so it can't have an agenda. People like you and I, John, who use religion to further themselves by hurting others are just that, people....
History does not help you either John, the Holy Wars had nothing to do with religion, but land occupation.....go back and read...
Believe me John, words can be just as bad as any weapon out there and you use them well. But as you try to say things, you are hurting others who may have nothing to do with your words. I also feel that there are many christians who are good and kind people. There are jerkoffs, don't get me wrong, but where aren't there?
Take care John, we'll talk again, now back to work I go.....

 

[Eggs]

Fantasma - Land = Power... more so in the past than now, since power can be a very abstract thing these days, but I agree, land is the reason for most wars.

 

[Eggs]

John - Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are full of hatred and bigotry. I'm rather tired of you using that line to justify everything you say.

You base what you say on what you "think" is happening... but what you see is shaped through the prism of your personal beliefs into what you think is happening.

I think that there is an element in todays society that is against homosexuality... and a large part of that is because of their beliefs. However, being that you want everyone to be accepting of your beliefs and how outspoken you are about the subject, you dont treat others the same way in that they should be able to have their own beliefs and be outspoken about it.

Thats the funny things about belief, you think you are right and that the other guys are wrong. You're not really any different, and I have no doubt that if you were in power you would be pushing your beliefs on everyone as well.

 

[kbm8795]

kbm, the drama and the bs you are posting is really somewhat comical.

Is marriage really a basic right? Come on.

Those of us against gay marriage are not all out to get homosexuals. We just think it is a lifestyle choice that is wrong. Many of my choices are wrong too, so I am not here to judge. However, marriage if for one man/one woman, period.

While it seems that Christians are losing the culture war in this country, this is one that will not be lost. I firmly believe Kerry lost b/c many Christian blacks voted Bush over this issue.

Trying to paint those of us who are against gay marriage as fanatical bigots or waiving the Catholic church's problem in my face is poor debating.

Pepper

Sorry. . .but I'm afraid the right to marry IS a basic right, certainly as far as access to over a thousand statutes governing personal property, inheritance, health and funeral arrangements are concerned. And that basic right of humans to freely associate has been asserted over and over again by the U.S. Supreme Court, which reiterates how states must show a compelling interest in interfering in the intimate relationships of individuals. Merely just saying "I think the lifestyle is wrong" means nothing more than disapproval of others. Pretending that someone is legally "single" when it is obvious they are not, and then demand that they have none of those benefits unless they can be married (while of course, refusing them that right) is nothing more than pretension.

If marriage wasn't a basic right, the state would interfere with your choice of a wife beyond the age of consent and familial relationship. The state could also demand that, because it isn't a basic right, your wife could be ordered to testify against you in a court of law. If it wasn't a basic right and you kicked off without a will, there would be no automatic designation as 'next of kin." If it wasn't a basic right, anyone could not only question the proper validity of your own marriage, but refuse you the right to marry without adhering to additional requirements like a dowry, proof of reproductive ability, assurance that you won't pass on "bad" genes, or require you to produce a set number of children.
Of course, even state constitutional amendments open the door to many of these same possibilities, since there is now constitutional precedence for defining marriage as a civil right instead of a basic right. Although an Ohio judge recently sidestepped this issue in dealing with a domestic violence case between an unmarried hetersexual couple (the case was filed before the state passed a constitutional amendment defining marriage and preventing any protection for any unmarried relationships) it's likely to come up again.

Of course, those who say they aren't out to get homosexuals vote to "protect" marriage while pretending to ignore the rest of the wording on those amendments, which certainly do go after the existence of those relationships. Virginia likely outlawed all personal contracts; Louisiana's Supreme Court had to step in to rule that Louisiana didn't rule out all personal contracts too.

It's too bad if this comes off as drama and B.S. to you, Pepper - but next to all the high drama about the "sanctity" of a civil marriage, "christians" would do better to question how Britney Spears could so easily access such a solemn and serious union....or how conservative legislators could ignore such compelling marital dangers as infidelity, divorce, and domestic violence...
But then, since we apparently ship 500 U.S. citizens overseas to adoptive parents each year, we don't even take good care of our own children now.

You might make wrong "lifestyle" choices all the time, Pepper - but you don't expect social sanctions that demand you sacrifice who you are buried next to as punishment. If that's dramatic - then good. . .it should be. Those people were silent about those practices much too long. Their lives are neither criminal or harmful to others simply because you think they are the "wrong choice." That concept could only apply if every person who divorces was punished in a like manner for making the wrong lifestyle choice by being denied the right to marry again.