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Yet another Manchurian Incident, school massacre: nwo gun control coming
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I agree, I think you might be reading too much into my post. I'm pro gun and actually own these same weapons.
A Bushmaster AR against 5 year olds in a small room is absolutely overkill. They had no chance. The gunman is a coward.
One well trained armed adult in that school facility could have repelled the attack. All the cops can do in these cases is come pick up the bodies when you call them.
I own the same weapons this man had. I could not even imagine hurting anyone with my weapons unless it was absolutely needed.
As long as the bad guys are around I want to be armed. Disarming sounds good but in the real world its arms that protect us. I don't think this is a gun issue as much as it's a mental issue. This man was hopeless and possibly mentally challenged. Why? Did he not feel loved or respected? I have no idea if he was emotionally hurt or broken or if he was just plain out of his mind but whatever the case it was this man's mental condition that drove his actions.
Most gun laws strictly forbid mentally challenged persons from possessing them. Most gun laws also require arms to be secured. Apparently these existing gun laws were not enforced in his case.
This whole thing is utterly tragic and horrible. Increasing school security is a no brainer. Training just 1 or 2 adults that are already in the facility would be cost effective and proactive. Another option would be hiring retired cops or military personnel.
I own the same weapons this man had. I could not even imagine hurting anyone with my weapons unless it was absolutely needed.
As long as the bad guys are around I want to be armed. Disarming sounds good but in the real world its arms that protect us. I don't think this is a gun issue as much as it's a mental issue. This man was hopeless and possibly mentally challenged. Why? Did he not feel loved or respected? I have no idea if he was emotionally hurt or broken or if he was just plain out of his mind but whatever the case it was this man's mental condition that drove his actions.
Most gun laws strictly forbid mentally challenged persons from possessing them. Most gun laws also require arms to be secured. Apparently these existing gun laws were not enforced in his case.
This whole thing is utterly tragic and horrible. Increasing school security is a no brainer. Training just 1 or 2 adults that are already in the facility would be cost effective and proactive. Another option would be hiring retired cops or military personnel.
heckler7
Registered
I think this may possibly be the way to deter this, by making it known in how much of a pussy and coward you are to kill defenseless children,, I dont think these people do this to leave behind a cowardly legacy. they want to shock people and make the news.
I hope in the future scientist figure out a way to re-animate these bastards so we can kill them slowly
MSN reported he attempted to buy a rifle earlier in the week and was denied. An AWB is also in place in CT, I don't know if the one he took from his parents was legal or not but the fact remains he circumvented both laws.
a question on a application does not constitute any meaningfully stoppage of the mentally ill from purchasing a firearm. the US has one of the highests percentage of severely mentally ill people in the OECD most of which are not under treatment with almost 25% of the total population suffering from one or many forms of mental illness. we are also a very violent (tv shows, movies, video games, etc.) with a public infatuated with celebrity and in general not a very kind society. when combined with easy access to weapons it's a recipe for disaster.
as with most problems there is not one single cause and no single cure to this growing problem. in the US "mental health" is still a rather taboo subject and should be at the forefront of medical research.
dirtwarrior
Registered
Wrong
the more guns there are in any society, the more that can fall into the wrong hands
for every 100 people with a gun in the US there would be about 75 who arent fit to own one..........how many masacres until the people demanding they have a right to own one admit that something has to be done?????
for every 100 people with a gun in the US there would be about 75 who arent fit to own one..........how many masacres until the people demanding they have a right to own one admit that something has to be done?????
What is extremely weird is that I was talking to a school teacher the night before. They have been having "lockdown" drills lately. I brought up the point that if I was a teacher I would feel highly inclined to have a weapon on me. They agreed. I totally agree 100% here heavy.
My daughters school has ever door locked and the only one that you can get in is in the front and that has to be buzzed in by the women sitting at the desk.All schools should now try to upgrade there security by making sure doors are closed or somehow watched by cameras just a idea.
Politics aside I suspect even gun control freaks are heart broken over this. There are few people that could not be. That said...
I think we could strengthen gun laws in some way to help. Better background checks, mandatory gun use courses or something along those lines.Taking guns from law abiding people that just want to protect themselves or collect, target shoot etc, is not the way though.
1 thing we could do NOW to help slow down this crap is not to show it 24 hours a day on tv after it happens. Reporting is one thing, grinding it out on and on and on is another. The "race" to show a small piece of info first or show the most info may tell sicko's that they can get more attention than they ever thought possible.
Another thing I think, could be to train some teachers and staff how to use weapons. Not all of them of course, but some. As with a concealed weapons permits it may give sickos pause to know that someone around our children has a gun and knows how to use it. The first time someone goes to a school and tries hurt the children that gets his head blown off would be a step in the right direction. And if that happened I would not be so opposed to showing it on tv 24 hours a day on and on and on.
I think we could strengthen gun laws in some way to help. Better background checks, mandatory gun use courses or something along those lines.Taking guns from law abiding people that just want to protect themselves or collect, target shoot etc, is not the way though.
1 thing we could do NOW to help slow down this crap is not to show it 24 hours a day on tv after it happens. Reporting is one thing, grinding it out on and on and on is another. The "race" to show a small piece of info first or show the most info may tell sicko's that they can get more attention than they ever thought possible.
Another thing I think, could be to train some teachers and staff how to use weapons. Not all of them of course, but some. As with a concealed weapons permits it may give sickos pause to know that someone around our children has a gun and knows how to use it. The first time someone goes to a school and tries hurt the children that gets his head blown off would be a step in the right direction. And if that happened I would not be so opposed to showing it on tv 24 hours a day on and on and on.
Where do you get the 75 out of 100 not being fit to own a gun?
heckler7
Registered
there are plenty of companies that provide armed security. alot of inner city schools already have metal detectors and police present. I drive by a few in LA that have several police cars always out front.
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Ya,what a heartbreak. I agree Hypno. Also, mental illness statistically shows between the ages of 18 to 27 . The last 3 nuts fall in that range.
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http://m.gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother
"Three days before 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year-old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.
"I can wear these pants," he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.
"They are navy blue," I told him. "Your school's dress code says black or khaki pants only."
"They told me I could wear these," he insisted. "You're a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!"
"You can't wear whatever pants you want to," I said, my tone affable, reasonable. "And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You're grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school."
I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7- and 9-year-old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.
That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.
We still don't know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He's been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood-altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.
At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it's impossible to predict what will set him off.
Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district's most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can't function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30 to 1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.
The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"
"No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."
His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."
That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.
"Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"
"You know where we are going," I replied.
"No! You can't do that to me! You're sending me to hell! You're sending me straight to hell!"
I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."
Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn't escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I'm still stronger than he is, but I won't be for much longer.
The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—"Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…"
At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.
For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."
By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.
On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, "I need help."
And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.
I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.
According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.
When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. "If he's back in the system, they'll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you're ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you've got charges."
I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn't deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.
With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation's largest treatment centers in 2011.
No one wants to send a 13-year-old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, "Something must be done."
I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.
God help me. God help Michael. God help us all."
"Three days before 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year-old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.
"I can wear these pants," he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.
"They are navy blue," I told him. "Your school's dress code says black or khaki pants only."
"They told me I could wear these," he insisted. "You're a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!"
"You can't wear whatever pants you want to," I said, my tone affable, reasonable. "And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You're grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school."
I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7- and 9-year-old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.
That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.
We still don't know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He's been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood-altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.
At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it's impossible to predict what will set him off.
Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district's most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can't function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30 to 1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.
The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"
"No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."
His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."
That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.
"Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"
"You know where we are going," I replied.
"No! You can't do that to me! You're sending me to hell! You're sending me straight to hell!"
I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."
Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn't escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I'm still stronger than he is, but I won't be for much longer.
The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—"Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…"
At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.
For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."
By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.
On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, "I need help."
And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.
I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.
According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.
When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. "If he's back in the system, they'll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you're ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you've got charges."
I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn't deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.
With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation's largest treatment centers in 2011.
No one wants to send a 13-year-old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, "Something must be done."
I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.
God help me. God help Michael. God help us all."
security is only as good as the people tasked with the job. I work in a lot of schools doing phone work and I have never been asked for ID once and move around freely with out ever being questioned as to my business there, etc. and that was the first couple of times I had been to all of the.
I think it's very foreign for people in education to think about this stuff all the time, it's just not that type of environment or the kind of people that worry about such things.
Mass shootings are not becoming more common from the stats I've seen. Also, it's important to look at what's been tried before, analyze statistics, use critical thinking; the last thing we want to do is rely on people's common sense.
Take away the ease of getting guns, then they'll try to fly a plane into a school or shopping mall, or steal a bulldozer. These crazy fucks will always find a way to kill.
biggerben69
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From what? Hair dryer in the tub thing?
yes they will always kill but statistically most of them are not highly skilled, some highly educated but that's surely not the same.
in terms of guns the semi-auto just makes it very easy to kill in numbers in a short amount of time and the high capacity magazines.
what I do find puzzling about the crime stats on mass shootings is almost a complete lack of information on the topic from say 1940-1980. it seems like most of the data only deals with the last 30 years with the post WWII era being a much different and overall friendlier society than present day.
What makes it look more common is the instant news report that is available.
That is probably a big part. Mostly slip and falls, down stairs and in bath tubs.
That piece of shit wont make it one day if they put him in any kind of a general population!
I heard they arrested some other guy for threatening to do the same thing. He had a car full of guns. I guess his wife told police.
Pathetic excuses for humans!!!
I heard they arrested some other guy for threatening to do the same thing. He had a car full of guns. I guess his wife told police.
Pathetic excuses for humans!!!
What the hell to do with mentally ill people???
Thou shalt not kill was removed from our schools. We cannot teach "religious" morality anymore. Kids are taught that we are not much different from animals. We have no maker to stand before and be judged for our actions. Its time to bring back morality and teach that all human life is precious.
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Not sure if serious....
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The majority of gun massacres happen in "gun free" zones. A guy tried to pull a gun massacre in Salt Lake City. He was gun downed after he shot one person.
Also, I'll refer you to this post of mine:
This was in the funny picture thread, but oh-so-relevant here:
We share a 3,200 mile border with a shitty third-world country, and that border leaks like a sieve. We're supposed to get rid of guns with that shit going on? The UK can't manage it either, but the USA is supposed to? We import and export 20% off all the world's out put, and we have a total of 8,700 miles of borders.
Anyone that thinks that banning guns in the USA is a good thing is a fucking moron.
You know what? I think I just figured it out. They ban all the guns and the law abiding citizens get mowed down by criminals. Then they beef-up the armed presence of the police in the USA and...BANG...armed police state. I think that's what they're aiming for.
exphys88
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I could care less the religious background but lets face it, kids need to be taught that all human life is precious. Many kids spend all day in virtual video games mass killing then they go to the movies watching mass killing (even the good guys in the movies) We fill our kids minds with violence and killing 24/7. Its time to stop filling these kids minds with nonsense.
