Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
how did you know about thatbio-chem said:so how do you feel about gay christians?
ForemanRules said:how did you know about that
ISuckPenisImGay said:I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!????![]()
![]()
I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!????
![]()
![]()
I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!????
:: I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!????
I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? : I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!???? : I BE GAY WHO WANTS TO GIVE IT TO ME IN THE ASS!!????
bio-chem said:well i looked at that site minotaur and all i can say is that might possibly be the worst use of the bible i have ever see. to use that to reconcile your belief in God with your personal life is really grasping at straws. i really dont know where to begin with that site.
fine lets start with the easiest and most obvious then shall we.Minotaur said:Why don't you try? You've done nothing but knock the site without giving any specifics. Could it be because you don't know what you're talking about and don't WANT to believe what he says, despite all the references he gives?
Unless and until you can come up with some valid refutations to anything he says... any old thing... c'mon, pick a topic since you opened the door... I don't accept your out-of-hand rejections of his writings as anything less than the fear that it would shake the foundations of your world to learn that something you believed in is wrong. You cannot think outside the box!
Pepper said:THE BIBLE REPEATEDLY DEMONSTRATES GOD'S LOVE, CARE AND ACCEPTANCE OF ALL OUTCAST, REJECTED, MISUNDERSTOOD AND ALIENATED PEOPLE.
Yes. This is true. Let's be specific. Christ befriended the prostitute at the well. God loves all of us. We are all sinners. Christ showing compassion for the prostitute in no way implies that prostitution is not a sin.
Also, this is not really related to anything, but I found this quote today. I think it summarizes my frustration with many Christians when it comes to dealing with homosexuals and other sexual sinners:
C. S. Lewis in his book, Mere Christianity, says:
"If anyone thinks that Christians regard unchastity as the supreme vice, he is quite wrong. The sins of the flesh are bad, but they are the least bad of all sins. All the worst pleasures are purely spiritual. The pleasure of putting other people in the wrong, of bossing and patronizing and spoiling sport, and backbiting; the pleasures of power, of hatred. For there are two things inside me competing with the human self which I must try to become: they are the animal self, and the diabolical self; and the diabolical self is the worst of the two. That is why a cold, self-righteous prig, who goes regularly to church, may be far nearer to hell than a prostitute. But of course, it's better to be neither."
Pepper said:Now, one for you...how do you and Dr. Truluck spin out of these passages?
Leviticus 18:22: "No man is to have sexual relations with another man; God hates that."
Leviticus 20:13: "If a man has sexual relations with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death. They are responsible for their own death."
Pepper said:Rom 1:26,27
Rom 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
Rom 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
I agree.....and can't believe he posted it.bio-chem said:best post yet. simple, clear, concise logic.
bio-chem said:Special note on YADA: The Hebrew word YADA "to know" is never used in the Old Testament to mean "to have sex with". People have been conditioned to think that "to know someone biblically" means to have sex. The use of YADA in Genesis 4:1-2 to say that Adam knew Eve and she conceived and gave birth to Cain is followed by saying that later she gave birth to his brother Abel without any reference to YADA. Why? Simply because YADA does not mean to have sex. It is a general term that describes many kinds of intimate relationships. I have studied all of the uses of YADA in the Old Testament, and my personal conclusion is that it never means what we mean by sexual intercourse. Just substitute a common slang expression for sexual intercourse instead of the word "know" in Genesis 4:1 and you will see how inappropriate the idea is. The Old Testament Hebrew writers never thought or wrote in those terms. The Bible never gives any details about sexual acts. The only clear Hebrew term for sexual acts is "to lie with," which is left without any further explanation.
multiple things with this. the first is that the original Hebrew uses no vowels. so when he says YADA meaning "to know" he is adding in order to help translate. something you are against because it causes problems in translation. well it appears both sides do it doesnt it. the lack of vowels in Hebrew is a common problem leading to many problems such as confusion over numbers referenced (how many people did samson really kill with the jawbone of an ass?) or even to the proper spelling and pronunciation of the name of the lord.
the second point i have is this man clearly states this is his personal opinion of translation. it is still ambiguous and could still easily be translated that "to know" is in reference to a sexual act. but continue to grasp at straws if you so desire. this site does not prove that homosexuality was allowed.
even if we say the bible says nothing about homosexuality, which i consider to be a stretch you still have 2000 or so years of tradition to overcome. you are saying God allows homosexuality, to prove this you have to show that at some point in judeo-christian history man changed the laws of God. you need to show that 2000 years of tradition is incorrect and that man changed what was once an accepted practice into something against the laws of God. not impossible, but very difficult.
it is amazing to me that this is a debateable issue. the laws of God are that sexual relationships outside of marriage are against the church of God. do they happen? yes. are they accepted? no. homosexual marriage was never practiced in judeo-christian history. that is easily proven. so if the marriage of two males was never accepted in these societies how could the sexual union be? open your eyes. this has nothing to do with me blinding myself to the truth. it has to do with simple logic.
Minotaur said:Go read the site.
Done.
Minotaur said:Go do some research, open your eyes and your mind, and grow up.
Minotaur said:Further pointing out that you know little to nothing of linguistics... Hebrew and Arabic (both descendant dialects of the same protolanguage) DO have vowels. No language can be spoken without vowels. The vowel SOUNDS are simply not written in Hebrew and Arabic except as diacritic marks.
Btw, did it ever occur to you that at least 50-75% of the world doesn't give a rat's ass about your bible and your Judeo-Christian God or believe in either one? So who are you to state what is in God's mind when God is only in YOUR mind? All you have to go on is a belief in something that probably does not exist, yet you want to keep shoving YOUR beliefs in my face.
Furthermore, there are societies where homosexual men were highly regarded and treated with respect. The Plains Indians come to mind. And yes there are societies where it was perfectly normal for two men to join together for life.
Go do some research, open your eyes and your mind, and grow up.
Pepper said:It takes very little research to see that your postion holds no water. I agree wtih bio on this, it is somewhat incredible that this is even debated. Like I said, just denounce the Bible's authority rather than try to bend it around your lifestyle. Seems less trouble and less embarrassing.
bio-chem said:exactly they are not written with vowels. the hebrew language does not use vowels in its written language. that doesnt change my post. and my post is directed to you. who professes to be a christian. if the person im writting to is not christian then i use a different approach. are you really this stupid? im not trying to convince anyone here to be christian. im saying this is what i base my beliefs on. shoving in your face? you ask me to respond to a website you post and when i do and you are unable to respond to the post and then say im shoving my beliefs on you? i didnt start the thread. and your examples of societies are of non-christian ones. i readily accept homosexuality was an accepted practice in non-christian societies. so what. if you are a believer in Christ then stop with the "what about non-christian BS" and get to the facts. if you are not a believer in Christ then i say i base my beliefs on my Christian values and that is the reason why i feel the way i do. i have not pushed my values on anyone, but i will speak boldly about the way i feel. when have i ever said homosexuals go to hell? never. ive not condemned anyone here. stop playing the repressed minority card. its getting old and isnt even valid
Minotaur said:The bible has no authority! I don't have to accept it or abide by it or fit it into my "lifestyle" (and do tell me what that is) because I don't believe in it. I'm trying to make you understand that it's been used, incorrectly and immorally, to punish people... many people who don't even believe in it. What part of that don't you understand?
Minotaur said:The bible has no authority! I don't have to accept it or abide by it or fit it into my "lifestyle" (and do tell me what that is) because I don't believe in it. I'm trying to make you understand that it's been used, incorrectly and immorally, to punish people... many people who don't even believe in it. What part of that don't you understand?
Robert DiMaggio said:I agree 100%!
Long time since you have been around here, heh?![]()
bio-chem said:... you have pretty much just shot yourself in the foot with that website.
Minotaur said:Christ never denounced love between two people, regardless of their sex. And that I stand by.
Continue to speak "boldly" about the way you feel and continue to piss people off. You'll learn in time when you've pissed off the wrong person, that "it's better to say nothing and be thought stupid than to speak and remove all doubt" (Chinese proverb), as you have done repeatedly.
Minotaur said:Yeah, OK, whatever...![]()
Pepper said:John H., I suggest you buy a Bible and read it. Then, maybe, you will stop making such ridiculously false statements about what it says and doesn't say.
Seriously, you statements about the Bible are absurd. Ignorant is probably a better word.
http://www.cdu.jesusanswers.com/photo6.htmlJohn H. said:Hi Pepper,
I do actually own one and have read the whole book many times.
I stand COMPLETELY by what I said.
God - HIMSELF - and Christ - HIMSELF - NEVER SAID ONE WORD - PERIOD - EVER!
The Bible was written by MEN - over 40 actually - and over a long period of time. Each with their own personal comments and thoughts.
Take Care, John H.
Pepper said:Whoa now, wait a minute. Read John's posts here and everywhere. He is constantly saying that God says nothing about homosexuality. He is dead wrong. Paul, in God's word, mentions it. Stating that the Bible is OK with Homosexuality is absurd. I am sorry if that offends you, but it is.
I get really tired of liberal Christians trying to retro-fit the Bible to fit their agenda. What is funny, is they pick and issue where the Bible is pretty clear.
What is funny to me is that you accuse me of cheap attacks when John H. posts a ridiculously cheap assault on Christianity with nearly every post.
I suggest you use the search feature before you jump on my case.