2nd cycle?

[OldSchoolLifter]

To whomever suggested Proviron - you took the post right out of my - er - fingertips. Yes, I have noticed Proviron certainly adds a noticeable hardness to any stack I've done. Been using it at 25mg ED and bumped it to 50mg ED on current stack. I don't think you cna go wrong by adding Proviron to your stack whether cutting or bulking - it offers a pleasant effect as a pure androgen. Not to mention the libido - whew lordy - my poor wife.

LOL haha, yeah Proviron is pretty nice.

 

[BIGBEN2011]

yea i all so think d-latsky or what ever his name is a joke he talks shit to me all the time and he is half my size and he looks soft as hell i would never post those pics if i looked like him. i lol everytime i see his avtar.i am a cool guy and get along with anybody but this guy is a looser and a bully over a keyboard and would get his asss kicked in a sec in real life.there was somthing said about him writing a blog for z and me and several other custmer of z pm z and told him if he does we are gone i was told not to worry he does not have the people skills or the look to be anything ever.he is just to insecure with him self.he knows some stuff but just dont know how to talk right to people he is a dick head looser.

 

[D-Lats]

yea i all so think d-latsky or what ever his name is a joke he talks shit to me all the time and he is half my size and he looks soft as hell i would never post those pics if i looked like him. i lol everytime i see his avtar.i am a cool guy and get along with anybody but this guy is a looser and a bully over a keyboard and would get his asss kicked in a sec in real life.there was somthing said about him writing a blog for z and me and several other custmer of z pm z and told him if he does we are gone i was told not to worry he does not have the people skills or the look to be anything ever.he is just to insecure with him self.he knows some stuff but just dont know how to talk right to people he is a dick head looser.

Aww grab a tissue

 

[HardCharger_84]

Well I think you guys should stop arguing with one another on this dudes thread where hes asking for help. Thats just my 2cents, but since the thread is all fu**ed up how bout some peeps give me some reps cause for some reason I lost like 6 red blobs under my name a while bck and I want them back lol

 

[Mikebeasley69]

reps are over rated and dont mean dick eccept to people that dont know there overrated and dont mean dick

 

[GMO]

Well I think you guys should stop arguing with one another on this dudes thread where hes asking for help.

x2



Here:

Mass:

Wk 1-10 Test E 500mg/wk
Wk 1-6 or Wk 4-9 D-bol 30-40mg ED
Wk 1-12 Aromasin 12.5mg EOD
Wk 1-12 Hcg 250-500iu x2/wk

Cut:

Wk 1-10 Test E 500mg/wk
Wk 6-11 Winstrol 50mg ED
Wk 1-12 Aromasin 12.5mg EOD
Wk 1-12 Hcg 250-500iu x2/wk

PCT Clomid 100/75/50/50 and Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5

Run one of these only if your BF% is at or below 12-13%

If not...time to hit the treadmill and diet.

 

[D-Lats]

Sorry guys my bad. I was trying to help lol!

 

[Mikebeasley69]

x2



Here:

perfect advice right there- that top cycle looks just like the one i suggested first before the derailing of the thread

 

[Swolen22]

If you tned to be softer then it would be nice to know Bf% as D said.

If it is just due to water than maybe you need to run AI's higher than most.

I'd be tempted to stick some proviron in to try and add some hardness if that is a desired effect but don't decide anything until we've seen your bf% or a pic

I'm 17% bf right now. I weigh 210.

 

[trapzilla]

I'm 17% bf right now. I weigh 210.

Ok it will be suggested that you get down to the 13% range simply to avoid sides more and so that results are more visible.

when you do get to this percentage a basic test base with either some winstrol or anavar will do nicely if you wish to maintain a level of hardness.

so i'd shoot for something like this;
weeks 1-12 test e/c @ 500mgs ew split bi weekly
weeks 1-12 adex @.5mgs ed
week 4-12 anavar @60mgs ed
~or~
week 8-12 winny 50mg ed
weeks 13-18 aromasin @12.5 mg ed
weeks 14-18 clomid at 100/75/50/50 mg ed

HCG would be best run at 250mgs 2x weekly throughout or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off througout.

 

[D-Lats]

Ok it will be suggested that you get down to the 13% range simply to avoid sides more and so that results are more visible.

when you do get to this percentage a basic test base with either some winstrol or anavar will do nicely if you wish to maintain a level of hardness.

so i'd shoot for something like this;
weeks 1-12 test e/c @ 500mgs ew split bi weekly
weeks 1-12 adex @.5mgs ed
week 4-12 anavar @60mgs ed
~or~
week 8-12 winny 50mg ed
weeks 13-18 aromasin @12.5 mg ed
weeks 14-18 clomid at 100/75/50/50 mg ed

HCG would be best run at 250mgs 2x weekly throughout or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off througout.

Great layout options the only thing I might add is proviron which really gives a hard look at lower bf% and can be run all the way through pct.

 

[trapzilla]

Great layout options the only thing I might add is proviron which really gives a hard look at lower bf% and can be run all the way through pct.

Yeah i was ummin and arring over it but i think at this level of cycling it may not be necessary we probably won't be hitting sub 10% bf during the course of things.

i'm not convinced that it can be run throughout pct. it is ultimately still and AAS and will cause shutdown.

 

[D-Lats]

Yeah i was ummin and arring over it but i think at this level of cycling it may not be necessary we probably won't be hitting sub 10% bf during the course of things.

i'm not convinced that it can be run throughout pct. it is ultimately still and AAS and will cause shutdown.

Ive used it during pct in the past. It increases free test which in turn increases the sex drive and libido, which we know is the first thingto go when comeing off gear. It is a mild estrogen blocker so it helps to maintain gains and a sence of well being. There will always be debate i gues but in my experience ive had good results. Plus its nice when you smell a chick and get wood compared to wanting to take a basket making class without lol! Just my opinion.

 

[Mikebeasley69]

latsky why you suggest running hcg 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off? ive always read start two weeks after cycle then run it through cycle up to pct, im not bashing you just asking why you suggest that

 

[D-Lats]

latsky why you suggest running hcg 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off? ive always read start two weeks after cycle then run it through cycle up to pct, im not bashing you just asking why you suggest that

To be honest I missed that part of trapzillas layout. I personally don't run hcg. I am not a big believer in it's benefits I really don't care about the size of my nuts while on cycle. Earlier on I ran it at 500mg a week for the entire cycle an into Pct but that was like 8 years ago and I didn't have the info we do today. Back then we tapered down test and ran nolvadex or tapered to zero with winstrol.lol

 

[Mikebeasley69]

oic- ha so i should get some of them all important rep points everybody wants so bad lol, j/k ya man

 

[Quez82]

To be honest I missed that part of trap Iliad layout. I personally don't run hcg. I am not a big believer in it's benefits I really don't care about the size of my nuts while on cycle. Earlier on I ran it at 500mg a week for the entire cycle an into Pct but that was like 8 years ago and I didn't have the info we do today. Back then we tapered down test and ran nolvadex or tapered to zero with winstrol.lol

Exactly how i've always done it too. Nolva has always worked. All this new crap just makes it more complicated.

 

[Mikebeasley69]

all this new crap is because bros are getting smarter about gears and technology is advancing, i wouldnt want to go to a doctor that still had his patients drink whiskey and bite on a stick to ease the pain when he operated

 

[strength within]

I know PH use is a little frowned upon but using something that doesnt aromatize such as Dymethazine might be a good option instead of the d bol if he is trying to watch bloat/water retention

OP, also keep in mind that a lot off ppl use d bol and remain very lean while on it, I think your diet is going to pay the biggest factor in this.

 

[Swolen22]

Ok it will be suggested that you get down to the 13% range simply to avoid sides more and so that results are more visible.

when you do get to this percentage a basic test base with either some winstrol or anavar will do nicely if you wish to maintain a level of hardness.

so i'd shoot for something like this;
weeks 1-12 test e/c @ 500mgs ew split bi weekly
weeks 1-12 adex @.5mgs ed
week 4-12 anavar @60mgs ed
~or~
week 8-12 winny 50mg ed
weeks 13-18 aromasin @12.5 mg ed
weeks 14-18 clomid at 100/75/50/50 mg ed

HCG would be best run at 250mgs 2x weekly throughout or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off througout.

What will the differences be between using anavar or winny?

 

[D-Lats]

What will the differences be between using anavar or winny?

About $200 lol

 

[BIGBEN2011]

so d is that really the only diff between winny and var.i have heard anvar has some fat burnig propties to it.i am real intrested in learning about any gear that helps one with a goal of loosing fat and geting ripped and cut look.me researching winny,anvar tren and primo of cource i cant run all of those so trying to pick the best couple out of that list for my goals which as all ways to get super ripped and cutt. all so why is anvar so high?

 

[BigBird]

Ok it will be suggested that you get down to the 13% range simply to avoid sides more and so that results are more visible.

when you do get to this percentage a basic test base with either some winstrol or anavar will do nicely if you wish to maintain a level of hardness.

so i'd shoot for something like this;
weeks 1-12 test e/c @ 500mgs ew split bi weekly
weeks 1-12 adex @.5mgs ed
week 4-12 anavar @60mgs ed
~or~
week 8-12 winny 50mg ed
weeks 13-18 aromasin @12.5 mg ed
weeks 14-18 clomid at 100/75/50/50 mg ed

HCG would be best run at 250mgs 2x weekly throughout or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off througout.

I think the Arimidex/Aromasin doses are too high to begin with. Most I know run these AI's EOD as opposed to ED. ED should only be necessary if, and only if, the sides are uncontrollable with EOD dosing. Otherwise, the gains will be hindered for no good reason. Plus, a little bit of estrogen is a good thing.

D-Lats had a great suggestion to add Proviron to the mix as well. I personally love Proviron. I use it with every cycle. You can probably get away with 25mg ED but 50mg ED is not uncommon. Prepare for round the clock boners though. However, Proviron's benefits don't stop there.

As far as Winstrol vs. Anavar - it's 6 to 1, half dozen to the other. Some prefer one over the other and vice versa. I"ve used both and I noticed the Anavar cut more fat from my mid-section but my strength gains were more pronounced on Winstrol. Oh yeah, they're both liver toxic but Winstrol even more so. T-bol is always an option over either of these as well. 60mg ED pretty standard dosing on T-bol. Strength gains and pumps are nice.

 

[BIGBEN2011]

cutting fat arround my midsection is what i would love.if i could get some abbs i would golden.im am huge and no fat on my body but lower abbs love handle i need help there.i am thinking my next cyle will be test e,tren a,anvar or winny and prov.with adex does that sound good.

 

[BigBird]

For some reason - Anavar focuses on burnig visceral fat around the mid-section more so than anything else I've used; however, the Tren has amazing fat burning ability. Combine the two and you should be golden.

 

[Quez82]

all this new crap is because bros are getting smarter about gears and technology is advancing, i wouldnt want to go to a doctor that still had his patients drink whiskey and bite on a stick to ease the pain when he operated

or more bad information is being pushed around, and what technology are you talking about?

 

[Swolen22]

Im looking for long term use and health..
How long do I have to wait after first cycle to start 2nd?

Ive been bodybuilding 12 years and just now introduced aas
I am looking to compete and have a bright future

I don't want to beat around the bush doing pussy cycles forever but I know starting small is the way to go

I know everything has a natural evolution but I def do not want to ever abuse aas

I know I cant just jump into crazy dosages

Is completely avoiding orals for liver toxicity as much of a concern as I think it is?

 

[SloppyJ]

Im looking for long term use and health..
How long do I have to wait after first cycle to start 2nd?

Ive been bodybuilding 12 years and just now introduced aas
I am looking to compete and have a bright future

I don't want to beat around the bush doing pussy cycles forever but I know starting small is the way to go

I know everything has a natural evolution but I def do not want to ever abuse aas

I know I cant just jump into crazy dosages

Is completely avoiding orals for liver toxicity as much of a concern as I think it is?

Thing is, you wont need those high dosages when you first start out. And liver toxicity isn't THAT big of a deal with oral. Take some liver supps and you'll be fine bro.

 

[Swolen22]

What about test/deca for a 2nd?

How much of each is good?

 

[Swolen22]

Ok it will be suggested that you get down to the 13% range simply to avoid sides more and so that results are more visible.

when you do get to this percentage a basic test base with either some winstrol or anavar will do nicely if you wish to maintain a level of hardness.

so i'd shoot for something like this;
weeks 1-12 test e/c @ 500mgs ew split bi weekly
weeks 1-12 adex @.5mgs ed
week 4-12 anavar @60mgs ed
~or~
week 8-12 winny 50mg ed
weeks 13-18 aromasin @12.5 mg ed
weeks 14-18 clomid at 100/75/50/50 mg ed

HCG would be best run at 250mgs 2x weekly throughout or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off througout.

when you say '50mg winny' is that the amount for oral or injectable? Do the measurements match between oral and injectable doses of any compound?