I'm not looking to bulk up 20 pounds higher. I do well with just an anavar and HGH cycle. I like the strength anavar gives me but as I already know it does not give much gains, if any. I'm not a fan of testosterone as it sheds hair. What steroid can I take along with anavar that will be ok to take without test as base and something that does not blow me up 20 pounds of "air muscles" (bulk that will go away in a few months if not maintained). Is Primobolan my best bet? I read it's also "safer" for an injectable steroid, but pricey. I've looked into Winstrol injectables but I read it's bad for the joints (not good if my favorite workout is deadlift!). Like I said anavar is my favorite steroid, gives me as much strength as when I was on Test E, but without the sides. I like anavar. I just need a little kick but not much. Is Primobolan what I'm looking for? The dosages I'm seeing floating around the net seems like it would require Test as base but not sure if this is true at lighter dose.
-
Hello, this board in now turned off and no new posting.
Please REGISTER at Anabolic Steroid Forums, and become a member of our NEW community!
-
Check Out IronMag Labs® KSM-66 Max - Recovery and Anabolic Growth Complex
what steroids can be taken without testosterone as base?
- Thread starter BUCKY
- Start date
Tren
Valkyrie
Registered
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2012
- Messages
- 991
- Reaction score
- 238
- Points
- 0
I would never intentionally build a stack that way. I HAVE intentionally built stacks with very low dose test just around TRT level to compensate for the supression caused by the other anabolic. If you do that you can really run anything. Its not an exact science and theres a bit of guessing but using a low dose test as a base isn't going to cause you tons of sides or to bulk up.
BUCKY is a troll I think. Or just retarded 
s2h
Elite Member
dbol for one..
Valkyrie
Registered
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2012
- Messages
- 991
- Reaction score
- 238
- Points
- 0
BUCKY is a troll I think. Or just retarded
I try to answer in case it comes up for some regular person in a future search. Nomsayin?
longworthb
Banned Member
Bucky is a complete ass hat. I have never once seen a post from you that wasn't the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Ay go look at some of his previous posts. Man the fuck up and pin something. Your mangina is stinking up the place
High dosed Tbol.
Standard Donkey
Registered
would you please elaborate on this?
OP, all steroids can be run safely without testosterone as a base. However, you cant expect to keep gains if you dont make an effort to maintain them... so in your logic, all steroids will give you "air muscles".
heartofalion
Registered
Sounds like you're better off with designer steroids, particularly ones that don't aromatize. Can't remember offhand which ones risk hair shedding, but look into epistane, hdrol, msten, etc. plenty of people take them without test. Look at the non-DHT based ones.
RockShawn
Registered
Standard answer, NONE, however I really like sloppy's suggestion. I'd go with that.
juicespringsteen
Board Rep
Ment
Standard Donkey
Registered
just to be perfectly clear.. you aren't implying that long runs of deca with test would be safe.. right?
Mike Arnold
Registered
As several guys/girls here have stated already, ANY steroid can be run without testosterone, but after a while, you will begin to expeience the negative effects of its absence. The male body requires testosterone to maintain all of its normal functions. There is only ONE steroid which can completely replace testosterone from a physiological standpoint and that is Trestolone Ace (Ment), which another poster mentioned. However, Ment can cause hair loss (and is rife with other side effects, although it is bad-ass for growth), so you might want to stay away from it.
Basically, you are looking for a steroid which does not result in outwardly noticable androgenic side effects and does not cause water retention, but which still builds appreciable muscle. You mentioned you like Var, but are less than pleased with its muscle building ability.
There are not many steroids out there which possess the traits you are looking for, as most of the great mass & strength drugs cause androgenic side effects and/or sub-q water retention. However, there are a few which meet this criteria. SD ois by far the best. It is a very weak androgen...on par with Anavar...and is extremely unlikely to cause any hair loss (bout as likely as Var). It also results in a hard and dry appearance which is somewhat similar to Var, but the key difference lies in its ability to add extreme amounts of muscle mass & strength. This drug can usually be run alone without the user experiencing the effects of testosterone deprivation, as long as the cycle is kept short...about 4 weeks or less.
You could use primo, but it is going to provide mass gains similar to Anavar, so probbly not your best choice...unless a higher dosage is sued...then it can be decent for muscle gain, but it will cost a lot more than most drugs hen running a higher dosage. If money is not an issue...and you want to run a normal length cycle which supplies impressive gains while adhering to the criteria you've mentioned, the following is a solid, although unconventional, option:
Weeks 1-4: SD @ 10 mg, 2-3X per day.
Weeks 5-12: Primobolan @ 250 mg EOD.
Weeks 5-12: Test enth @ 25 mg EOD.
Weeks 9-12: SD @ 10 mg, 2-3X per day.
The SD is the powrehouse of the cycle, but due its methylated nature, you cannot run it the entire 12 weeks. In order to maximize the gains you will experience with this drug, while still providing ample off-time, you should split it up into two 4 week cycles, with 4 weeks to start the cycle and 4 weeks to finish. Primo is dosed at 875 mg per week total for 8 weeks and will help provide some lean, dry gains throughout your SD off-time. During the final 4 weeks of the cycle both are used together. Test enth was selected over prop, as prop has a higher conversion rate to DHT than does enth (which means more potential hair loss)...and when running only 87.5 mg per week, hair loss will be a non-issue. Prop is usually selected over enth fo those who are concerned with water retention, but again, because the dose is so low..and given the fact Primo displays anti-estrogenic properties on its own, the likelihood of experiencing water retention at this dose is pretty much an impossibility.
Some may think this T dose is too low, but they should remember that the only reason you are using T at all is to maintain pohysiological function...not to make better gains. They should also take into consideration the fact that many men naturally produce about 87.5 mg per week of Test per week. I realize it is common for many guys to run 200 mg per week for TRT purposes, but that dose is actually much higher than what men normally produce, throwing their T reading significantly outside the upper range of normal before gradually dropping back down. You will also notice that the Test enth does not come into the picture until the start of week 5. The reason for this is simple. Since it will take about 4 weeks of running SD alone before you experience the effects of low tesosterone, there is no need to add it in right from the start. By adding in it in right from the start, with natutal T levels still intact, you will experince an above normal levelsof Testosterone for the first few weeks. In your case, since we are not using testosterone for mass gains anyway, but only for maintenance of T levels, it just makes more sense to add it in when it is actually needed.
Anyway, there are numerous different ways you could set up this cycle up...and multiple other compounds you could use, as well. This is just one option, which will result in significant muscle gains, while minimizing the possibility of experiencing side effects you don't want.
I'm surprised of no mention of Masteron. I was thinking about an Anavar and Masteron stack, maybe an Anavar or Primobolan stack, or all 3. Masteron does not aromatize so does Anavar, I think I like that. I like the description of Masteron being slightly less stronger than Primo, and non aromatizing. I was close to liking Winstrol but it's supposed to be harsh on the liver at high dosage so I might pass on it.
Standard Donkey
Registered
test sheds hair stronger than masteron. can someone verify? Plus, like my original topic was that I want a steroid that will not blow me up 20 pounds higher of "air muscles". Test will do that, Masteron will not. I read Masteron is good to use when body fat is already low then you will see your veins pop out. I'm going for vascularity, not bulk. I think I got my answer when some of the people here said Test is not always required as base. I use anavar and HGH with no test. I just want to add something to it or replace HGH with another injectable (steroid) as HGH cost more and takes longer to use (6 months).
Last edited:
this last post proves a complete lack of knowledge...
ok let me break some thing down for you... in order to hold your gains you need test period. Your test drops, your gains are gone. People that run no test to not put on water is for contest prep purposes. If you take 200mg of test c a week which will put you in the natural levels you will not blow up 20lbs. FUCK if test made you blow up 20lbs that easy I would no be running half the shit I am running in hopes to gain 8lbs. You can also increase bloat or water if your entrogen gets to high and your test to to low. The key is to get it to the point you want. I dont know about you but I am sitting at 7%bf right now no bloated at all with vains going through my stomach while on test..HOW THE HELL IS THAT POSSIBLE YOU ASK... I am taking low test enough to keep me normal... WOW rocket science... I know im smart right???
Stop tying to reinvent the wheel, your diet is probably shit which is the reason why you blow up. I think instead of using drugs to get to your goal you can easily get there with a diet.
ok let me break some thing down for you... in order to hold your gains you need test period. Your test drops, your gains are gone. People that run no test to not put on water is for contest prep purposes. If you take 200mg of test c a week which will put you in the natural levels you will not blow up 20lbs. FUCK if test made you blow up 20lbs that easy I would no be running half the shit I am running in hopes to gain 8lbs. You can also increase bloat or water if your entrogen gets to high and your test to to low. The key is to get it to the point you want. I dont know about you but I am sitting at 7%bf right now no bloated at all with vains going through my stomach while on test..HOW THE HELL IS THAT POSSIBLE YOU ASK... I am taking low test enough to keep me normal... WOW rocket science... I know im smart right???
Stop tying to reinvent the wheel, your diet is probably shit which is the reason why you blow up. I think instead of using drugs to get to your goal you can easily get there with a diet.
dave 236
Elite Member
Wtf is air muscles?
Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
I was using 500mg of Test E a week. Maybe half of that should have been my dose. So to hold on to my gains I'd have to be on Test for as long as I want to hold on to my gains?
cactus-pits
Registered
the view/response ratio on this thread is almost 1:1
Digitalash
Registered
mast is a dht derivative and very androgenic so probably worsefor your hairline. run a moderate dose of test like 300mg a week and keep estro in check. Eat a clean diet and plenty of water and you won't bloat at all
s2h
Elite Member
Low dose dbol runs at 20mg ed are not only effective...but come with min sides and water retention...
